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Forced marriages and forced prostitution in Turkey

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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:22 am

insan,

thanks for the information. the way you presented Turkey to me though makes it seem much more 3rd world then it presents itself to be. again i stick to my story that this is not a country ready for the EU.
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Postby insan » Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:58 am

insan,

thanks for the information. the way you presented Turkey to me though makes it seem much more 3rd world then it presents itself to be. again i stick to my story that this is not a country ready for the EU.


I agree with you. Turkey is not ready for EU. It is reckoned she'll be ready for EU in 15 or 20 years time...
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Postby efe » Mon Feb 14, 2005 5:14 am

the big cities such as istanbul, izmir, ankara are actually ready or can be ready in a very very short time period. to generalize more western turkey is much more developed.

I can happily say that Turkish Law/Constituiton is upto European standards now.

the southeast/east especially is still very uneducated. the conflicts there made it even worse.

economically there are good things happening in turkey. Turkey is now 16th largest economy of the world and the growth continues at a fast speed. if GAP project succeeds the souteastern Turkey will provide enough food for the EU. it will also support our poor farmers in these areas. I think this is what EU is trying to accomplish too.

most difficult task is: changing these peoples mentality and make them more european. I can easily say that especially Southeastern citizens are not really compatible with European culture today. EDUCATION is the way to go. I regret to say that these people still live with stereotypes (like secretly putting a bug in a womans food to make her give birth to a son) (this example may not be very accurate but trust me this kind of mentality exists)

I always say if Kurdistan seperated from Turkey, we would be in EU right now. But ofcourse I dont support this, I want the long hard way, they are our citizens and we need to educate them also.

This is what we are promising to the EU. We are promising to bring every part of Turkey to EU standards, and we know it will take time. This is why we need EU to support us. We never said we want to be a member tomrorow. We only ask for a support.

Personally I am sick of EUs games. I want a FULL SUPPORT or NO SUPPORT. This is where most of the Turks get confused.

If you say NO SUPPORT, i am pretty sure many Turks would understand, accept and continue their way.
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Postby magikthrill » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:00 am

efe,

you can understand why you are not getting a solid answer from EU. it is because they are very cautious of submitting Turkey for NUMEROUS reasons, mainly because it will be the largest country w/in the next 20 years, because you are mostly muslim and because you are the poorests hence they feel like Turks will "contaminate" europe.

i dont necessarily support these claims but i do feel like the EU should be limited to the european nations. i mean the only reason why Cyprus entered the EU was because of the GCs. Geogrpahically Turkey is more part of EUrope than Cyprus is but culturally Cyprus is much more European than Turkey. If for example the island was inhabited solely by TCs chances are CYprus wouldnt be part of the EU.
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Postby turkcyp » Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:27 pm

deleted by the author...
Last edited by turkcyp on Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby magikthrill » Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:29 am

turkcyp,

where in the world did you get religion?! i am areligious and even anti-religious to an extent since i believe that religion is the bain of the world's exsitence.

ok my example was not very concrete since it required some assumptions.

if the native cypriots (ie greeks who lived in cyprus) were completely removed from Cyprus a long time ago (something that the Ottomans apparently failed to do) and only Turks occupied Cyrpus then Cyprus would have been just another part of modern day Turkey (like Imbros and Tenedors in the Aegean)

Therefore, the reason why Cyprus would not have been part of the EU is because its culture would have been more like Turkey's, hence less European than what Cyprus is today.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm just stating the facts. Everyone can agree in this forum that Turkey has been making many efforts to "Europeanise" itself. Hence, it is not aborginally European like the current countries of the EU and others.
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Postby erolz » Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:14 am

magikthrill wrote: if the native cypriots (ie greeks who lived in cyprus) were completely removed from Cyprus a long time ago (something that the Ottomans apparently failed to do)


The ottomans failed to do this because it was not their policy to do this - unlike the european powers of that time who saw the wiping out of existing peoples as the method of expanding their empires. The ottomans on the other hand took the view that its better to leave the conquered people to adminsiter their own affairs (under the millet system - which restablished the Greek Orthodox church in Cyprus afters hundreds of years of harsh Europena repression of it) and 'just' tax them.

magikthrill wrote:and only Turks occupied Cyrpus then Cyprus would have been just another part of modern day Turkey (like Imbros and Tenedors in the Aegean)


If there had been no GC in Cyprus Britain would still have come to Cyprus with the Ottomans blessing to prop it up against Russian expansion and they would still have annexed it at the start of the first world war.

Eventualy the all TC population would have demanded either union with Turkey or independance. If they chose independance they would have been in the commonwealth and would have been well on the 'European' route.
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Postby efe » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:34 am

i can easily say that i was grown up with a very european culture in turkey. but it is true, i stated in my previous post, that some people in turkey are not european by mind. what does it mean to be european anyways? i believe it is an ideology difference that seperated the continuent of Eurasia.

i believe most of the people who think we are not europeans, think this way either because of religion or because of history. we may be the "bad" guys during the history for our neighbours but in the end, we were part of this history. even though i think every empire operated the same way during those times. most empires would even give as many rights to their minorities as the Ottomans did. hey! it was the imperial age! theres no need to argue. (i am saying that if a Greek Empire had the same power of the Ottoman Empire, there would be no differnece) democracy is a new thing.

i am hoping that you are not supporting the idea that we are mongolians and therefore we can not be europeans.

EU is not defining Europe's borders. In the end, its jsut an organization. It has laws and according to these laws we are eligible to be a member. This has been decided. This is why I still dont understand the arguments.

we are part of every single european organization and now its time for the EU. we are not ottoman empire anymore, we are "the Republic of Turkey"
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Postby efe » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:40 am

also i want to ask a question to understand your point of view.

why are GC European and TCs are not? If this can be answered properly, Europeans could apply this for the Turkish EU case.
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Postby magikthrill » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:54 am

efe,

actually i believe TCs are more European than most Turks. If you have ever visited northern cyprus you will see that there is a great difference between settlers and TCs even from their appearance. (settlers dress more conservatively while TCs are more eurostylish ;) )

what i meant from my post was that if Turkey had cleansed all aboriginal cypriots from the island then these Turkish people liveing in Cyprus would not be much different from the rest of Turkey.

However, this would only occur if Turkey had not sold Cyprus to the Brits, since their influence is very evident throughout Aphrodite's island.
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