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Forced marriages and forced prostitution in Turkey

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Postby efe » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:13 am

i really do not know the difference between TCs and settlers however you have to realize that they are the same nation. The settlers you talk about most probably moved from a poor village of Turkey to Cyprus. They probably are conservative therefore. Rural citizens in every nation (including the fully developed ones) are more conservative than urban citizens.

Your example was actually a good example for Turkey too. We have many Turks who can be definitely described as modern europeans. We have many uneducated conservative ones from rural areas. In urban cities like Istanbul, you can see this mixture since these rural people move to the big cities for new job opportunities. But being uneducated does not mean they are not european. I keep on repeating my point of view, by education and support from fellow europeans, we can bring all of Turkey in to "(what you call) TC standards"

I would recommend you to visit Turkey too someday. You will get a much better understanding.

btw: I want to ask: how is the situation in Greece?
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Postby magikthrill » Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:10 am

Efe,

I'd love to visit Turkey and I will do so the first chance I get. I want to see Istanbul mostly but also a few places in Asia Minor.

As for the situation in Greece I am not sure what you meant exactly. If you are referring to conservative people and rural vs urban the situation is a little more simple. This is so because almost half the country lives in Athens!

As far as conservativeness it is fading away along with the oldest generations (ie those born in the first quarter of the 20th century). I have many cousins from rural areas and they are nothing like the average rural Greek you would see 50 years ago. IN fact I was taking fashion advice from my 16 year old cousin whose father is a farmer and lives in a village of no more than 300 people :). (She told me Diesel is staring to get played out hehehe)

So yes, maybe Turkey too will be like this one day but I am not sure how the country is in terms of statistical figures.

As far as your comment regarding TCs and settlers they are both part of the same pseudo nation yes, but their cultures are quire different. Of course this generalize has limitations but you can ask TCs in this forum.
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Postby efe » Tue Feb 15, 2005 5:02 pm

ya, i guess greece has managed to do it. since our population is much larger and people are spread it requires alittle more effort.

What do you mean my pseudo nation? We are the same nation. I am not asking wheter you recognize TRNC or not. I am saying that TCs and Turks of Turkey are both Turks. I dont really agree with the fact that their culture is significantly different. Theres cultural differences all across Turkey, TCs are just like that.

Anyways, I think this topic was unnecessary and this forum is not a place to argue about the womens rights in Turkey. But it was still nice to have a discussion with you.
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Postby magikthrill » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:51 pm

efe,

i also enjoyed having this conversation with you. as far as your comment regarding TCs and TUrks I did not understand what you said.

Of course Turks and TCs are similar since they have the same roots but and I'm guessing since the KKTC is nothing more than another part of Turkey (since its not recognized internationally) then it would be just as different as say Istanbul is from town in Southeastern Turkey.

However, there are quite a few differences between Greeks from Greece and Greek Cypriots. Although different parts of Greece have different customs and such (as do the GCs) because the parts of Greece are connected these customs remain a tradition only. For example, whiel there are many different dialects around Greece (Crete for one example) these dialects are slowly fading away with the older generations, whereas in Cyprus this dialect remains quite strong.

Additionally, although CYprus is so small (and 1/3 of it is being occupied) you'd be surprised to see how many differences exists on the island in terms of people and cities. What I'm saying with this is that CYprus has evolved in to its own country on practically every single level. I mean they even drive on the left hand side of the road (damn Brits!)
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Postby efe » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:26 am

i meant the exact same thing. I said that Turks and TCs are the same nation. However there are ofcourse some differences in traditions. There are many different customs in Turkey too. I am not saying TCs are part of Turkey but culturally they are Turkish. Just like the GCs and Greeks. They are similar arent they?

Turkish Cypriots have their different customs than Agean Turks. Agean Turks have different customs than Northwestern Anatolians.

This has nothing to do with KKTC.

To sum it up. You said TCs are much more European than Turks (settlers). I take this as you consider them as European. I am saying that it is not possible for TCs to be European and Turks not to be European because we are the same nation.

I tried to explain why the settlers look different than TCs. I agree that Turkey sent villages of people to Cyprus to keep the TC population high, since many TCs fled to UK, Turkey, etc.

Wasnt it Denktas who said "One Turk goes, one Turk comes"? :)
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Postby insan » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:33 am

if the native cypriots (ie greeks who lived in cyprus) were completely removed from Cyprus a long time ago (something that the Ottomans apparently failed to do) and only Turks occupied Cyrpus then Cyprus would have been just another part of modern day Turkey (like Imbros and Tenedors in the Aegean)


Ottomans failed to do???? Ottomans had never attempted to completely remove all GCs from Cyprus. What is the obstacle, super power in front of Ottomans prevent them removing all GC from Cyprus, in the age of conquerors? EU? Human Rights Organizations? US? Else?

magikthrill, you really make me laugh out loud, sometimes... :lol:
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:57 am

deleted by the author...
Last edited by turkcyp on Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:44 am

turkcyp, insan,

i said the Ottomans never attempted to remove all Greeks from Cyprus and hence they failed.

the reason why they never attempted is because they were incompetent to realize the strategical importance of the island. it wasnt until Ataturk came along that this idea struck their heads.

(Ottomans --> Ottoman leaders, just to make things precise )
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Postby erolz » Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:15 am

magikthrill wrote:turkcyp, insan,

i said the Ottomans never attempted to remove all Greeks from Cyprus and hence they failed.


er no you did not. try reading what you actualy wrote earlier in the thread. The above may have been what you meant but it was not what you said.

the reason why they never attempted is because they were incompetent to realize the strategical importance of the island. it wasnt until Ataturk came along that this idea struck their heads.


No they did not do this because it was not the ottoman policy to do this - unlike the european expansionsit powers of that time (which I already pointed out to you in an earlier post in this thread). They didn't do it Cyprus and they didn't do it in any other captured territory.

Do you really think that 'when attaturk came along' they decided their policy in Cyprus would be to kill / remove all GC from Cyprus?

???

Where did you study your history?

The fact is by comparative terms to contemporary powers of the time the ottomans where extremely enlightend.[/quote]
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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 5:34 am

erolz wrote:
er no you did not. try reading what you actualy wrote earlier in the thread. The above may have been what you meant but it was not what you said.


er im sorry yes thats what i meant

No they did not do this because it was not the ottoman policy to do this - unlike the european expansionsit powers of that time (which I already pointed out to you in an earlier post in this thread). They didn't do it Cyprus and they didn't do it in any other captured territory.

Do you really think that 'when attaturk came along' they decided their policy in Cyprus would be to kill / remove all GC from Cyprus?

???

Where did you study your history?

The fact is by comparative terms to contemporary powers of the time the ottomans where extremely enlightend.



Yes erolz you are right. In fact the Greeks were horrible "captives" for ever rebelling against the enlightened Ottoman empire.
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