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Forced marriages and forced prostitution in Turkey

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Postby erolz » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:06 am

magikthrill wrote:Yes erolz you are right. In fact the Greeks were horrible "captives" for ever rebelling against the enlightened Ottoman empire.


It is true that by 1800 ish 'ottoman' Greeks were rebelling against their ottoman rulers - all over the ottoman empire including Cyprus.

However the point I am making (along with the general point that there was never an ottoman or Turkish plan to rid cyprus of Greeks simply that failed - which looked like what you were saying oringinaly) is that in 1500 ish when the ottomans captured Cyprus if it had been say the Spanish that had captured Cyprus and not ottomans and they did to the cypriots what they did to say the aztec or incas, by 1800 there would have been no Greeks left in Cyprus to rebel at all. By this comparative standard 'of the time' the behaviour of the ottomans was postivley enlightend and progressive. As an expansionsit power in the 1500 the ottomans treated their capture subjects vastly better than the european powers of that time treated thiers.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:19 am

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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:43 am

erolz wrote:It is true that by 1800 ish 'ottoman' Greeks were rebelling against their ottoman rulers - all over the ottoman empire including Cyprus.

However the point I am making (along with the general point that there was never an ottoman or Turkish plan to rid cyprus of Greeks simply that failed - which looked like what you were saying oringinaly) is that in 1500 ish when the ottomans captured Cyprus if it had been say the Spanish that had captured Cyprus and not ottomans and they did to the cypriots what they did to say the aztec or incas, by 1800 there would have been no Greeks left in Cyprus to rebel at all. By this comparative standard 'of the time' the behaviour of the ottomans was postivley enlightend and progressive. As an expansionsit power in the 1500 the ottomans treated their capture subjects vastly better than the european powers of that time treated thiers.


Actually, no one can be sure of this. I took an intensive course on Natvie American history last semester and the reason why the Aztecs were taken down was because the other Native groups in the area did not like them and hence they helped the Spaniards in conquering them. And generally essentially none of the Natives throughout North and South America were not united and regarded themselves as a single nation to fight the conquerors. The only exception was the League of the Iroquois, whose government and union were the basis for the US form of government (very few people know this).

Regardless though, the main difference that Cyprus has between the other parts of the ottoman empire was that it was under British control. Otherwise, it would have been easier to remove the aboriginal Greek residents, the way they were removed from Asia Minor and Istanbul.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:46 pm

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Postby efe » Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:15 pm

history books in turkey say ottomans captured cyprus to stop the pirates of cyprus attacking ottoman ships on their way to western mediterenean.
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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:59 pm

turkcyp,

i didn't get my facts right in terms of Asia Minor. you're right. I was referring to the Greeks in Istanbul in Eastern Thrace.

I'm still not sure what got us to this point anyway, and in this part of the forum. What I basically meant to say from the start was that if GCs were the numerical minority in Cyprus then there would be no Cyprus problem, since they would probably have been removed completely.

there is no way to prove this I know, but heres a mathematical equation:

If Turkey occupies 1/3 of the island for 1/5 of the island's population, then how much would it occupy for 4/5 of the population?


heres a hint: its a number greater than 1[/b]
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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:03 pm

efe wrote:history books in turkey say ottomans captured cyprus to stop the pirates of cyprus attacking ottoman ships on their way to western mediterenean.


so did they do this to protect the other Mediterranean countries?

i dont think you really need an excuse to expand while youre an imperialistic empire. they probably captured Cyprus to have a better control of the trade in the eastern meditetrranean.

I'm sure our history books were not any better I don't remember anything about Cyprus in Greek history text books but it probably something along the lines of the ottomans captured cyprus because they were evil muslims.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:45 pm

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Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:21 pm

turkcyp wrote:
About these I tend to disagree with you as well. You are making it sound like the only thing that are in Turks minds are actually cleansing Greeks. Very very wrong!!!!

And your math has no logic behind it as well, as you said it yourself. The fact is Turkey got more land in Cyprus in 1974 because she knew that she would have bargain it away. Like it or not, and dirty I must agree, but it was a political decision.

Back then in 1974, there was no other military force to stop Turkey in Cyprus to get even more than %37. The only thing Turkey had to do is to stop going into sovereign basis.

And if the partition and independent north were on the agenda back then, Turkey would actually stop at %18 so that she could claim that I have invaded only what was TCs rights. Turkey invaded more than TC rights because she knew that she would have to bargain it away.

Of course that is my theory and as yours there is no way I can back this up. But just wanted to write.

Take care of yourself,

P.s. By the way we have effectively killed the subject anyway. From forced marriages to Cyprus problem. We are too politicized on this bloody island. :lol:


lol you are right. i totally forgot about the subject matter! hehehe

anyway as far as numbers are concerned (please maths is all i have dont take it away from me! :lol: ) you are thinking in terms of GCs being the majority but I was referring to the fact if they were a minority.

I'm not saying that Turks wanted to ethnically cleanse the Greeks but just like the Turks left from Crete because they were a minority and the Greeks revolted, likewise the Greeks would have left Cyprus if they were a minority (im comparing two different ethnic situations to make it a little more compatible)

also, i heard from my uncle that Turkey had intended to occupy less than 1/3 even in 74 but because all the GCs fled they ended up keeping more. is this true?
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