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A European Solution.

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Kikapu » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:12 am

observer wrote: There are Turkish soldiers on the TC side; a recent poll has shown that 70% of TCs want them to stay.


Observer,

I'm just curious. When you say 70% TC's want the Turkish Army to stay, can you then clarify how does the pollster knows, that the person that is being polled, is actually a TC, and not a settler. Since the population ratio is reaching the 70%-30% in favour of the settlers versus True Turkish Cypriots, I can't say I'm surprised that your figure of 70% is NOT incorrect. Does that then mean, all the remaining 30% True Cypriots, do want the Army out, because, I can not see any settler, ever wanting the Army out, can you.??
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Postby humanist » Fri Mar 30, 2007 10:18 am

I got to say the end result is excactly as observer noted, Turkey in EU would mean excactly just that Turkish Troops out of Cyprus so Turkey may as well hurry up and solve the Cyprus Problem so that they could enter the EU so that everyone would benefit, Turkish Cypriots, Turks and greek Speaking Cypriots alike. How bizare and stupid is the situation really Turkey at the moment is essentiallyu violating the human right of it's own citizens to be.

And Turkish Cypriots do not wish to live with the citizens that it will eventually when unification occurs, another 50 years to reach the same end result. Go figure.

Comon people lets get it together. Lets not waste time giving our turkish speaking compatriots equal EU status.
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Postby observer » Fri Mar 30, 2007 11:55 am

Kikapu
I'm just curious. When you say 70% TC's want the Turkish Army to stay, can you then clarify how does the pollster knows, that the person that is being polled, is actually a TC, and not a settler. Since the population ratio is reaching the 70%-30% in favour of the settlers versus True Turkish Cypriots, I can't say I'm surprised that your figure of 70% is NOT incorrect. Does that then mean, all the remaining 30% True Cypriots, do want the Army out, because, I can not see any settler, ever wanting the Army out, can you.??

The honest answer is that I don't know who was asked the questions because I didn't ask the question, but the ratio seems about right from discussions amongst what you would call genuine TCs. In my experience the young people are more likely to be idealistic and prepared for the Turkish Army to leave. The older people more likely to want them to stay (result of experience rather than hopeful idealism?)

I would also like to comment on your ratio of what you call settlers. Most of the numbers that I have seen quoted by GC side include temporary Turkish residents, like students and temporary workers. It's as though we started calling students and Sri Lankan and other temporary workers that we see in the South 'settlers'. Leave out people who come here through marriage, are born of Turkish parents here, retire here etc. and you really haven't got a problem anywhere near the ratio that you indicate.
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Postby free_cyprus » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:20 pm

observer
first of all i dont want to see one turkish flag on cyprus soil, and not one greek flag on cyprus soil. i want full diplomatic cut of from turkey and greece. i want an appologgy from turkey greece and britain for the problems they coused us, and i want cypriot people to appologies for the crimes they commited against us cypriots. those who were involved in so called tmt and eoka.the traitors. aslo we want to change the school systems to ban all turkish and greek history books from cyprus schools. we want cyprus to be free not in chains again as we have been for thousands of years
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Postby Kikapu » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:25 pm

observer wrote:Kikapu
I'm just curious. When you say 70% TC's want the Turkish Army to stay, can you then clarify how does the pollster knows, that the person that is being polled, is actually a TC, and not a settler. Since the population ratio is reaching the 70%-30% in favour of the settlers versus True Turkish Cypriots, I can't say I'm surprised that your figure of 70% is NOT incorrect. Does that then mean, all the remaining 30% True Cypriots, do want the Army out, because, I can not see any settler, ever wanting the Army out, can you.??

The honest answer is that I don't know who was asked the questions because I didn't ask the question, but the ratio seems about right from discussions amongst what you would call genuine TCs. In my experience the young people are more likely to be idealistic and prepared for the Turkish Army to leave. The older people more likely to want them to stay (result of experience rather than hopeful idealism?)

I would also like to comment on your ratio of what you call settlers. Most of the numbers that I have seen quoted by GC side include temporary Turkish residents, like students and temporary workers. It's as though we started calling students and Sri Lankan and other temporary workers that we see in the South 'settlers'. Leave out people who come here through marriage, are born of Turkish parents here, retire here etc. and you really haven't got a problem anywhere near the ratio that you indicate.


For all practical purpose, when it comes to polling as to what people want to do with the Turkish Army or a Partition or a Unification, then I would have to say, anyone who comes from Turkey, and lives and calls the "TRNC" home, is not a True Turkish Cypriot, therefore can be classified as a "settler", because of their conflict of interest, whether they are married to a TC or not. Children born to "settlers" in the "TRNC", will be more difficult to classify their status, unless they were born to at least one parent, who is a True Turkish Cypriot, which will then make them a TC.

This is for the polling we are talking about, and nothing else, so people, keep your hair on. :wink:
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Postby free_cyprus » Fri Mar 30, 2007 12:35 pm

there is no such thing as true trukish cypriot or a true greek cypriot. the only assosiaction we have with them is we speak their language nothing else........................so please dont call us greeks and turks try and make the distinction between what we are and who we are and at least have a bit of pride about cyprus
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Re: A European Solution.

Postby Carpe Diem » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:48 pm

observer wrote:Back in 2004, Papadopoulos urged GCs not to vote for the Annan Plan, but to wait for the European Solution. He has never told anyone what the European Solution was, so here is my European Solution, as simple as it is radical.

EU countries recognize the TRNC (followed by the rest of the world) and allow it to enter the EU.

Firstly, it solves the GC demand of ‘right of return’. Any EU citizen will be allowed to live and work in the TRNC. They will be allowed to vote in EU elections and local elections, but not national elections, which will calm TC fears of being ruled by GCs. Of course, after 30+ years, it is impractical for all to return to their former homes. New roads and buildings now exist, and many may not want to return. In these cases the EU can set up a tribunal to make binding decisions on compensation or land exchange.

Secondly, it solves the demand of Turkish soldiers leaving the Island. In reality, most soldiers would probably leave. In any case, it ceases to be a RoC problem, it becomes the responsibility of the TRNC government. British and American soldiers are in Germany without anyone feeling that that German national integrity is harmed.

Thirdly, it solves the problem of ‘settlers’. Those who have TRNC citizenship now will become EU citizens, those who are not will be ‘aliens’, with the same limited rights as Turkish citizens in any other EU country.

There will still be other areas that need resolution, for example the borders, but TCs showed themselves willing to accept border adjustments in 2004 and would probably be willing to do so again. There would need to be a transitory period to adjust TC laws and institutions to EU standards, and during this period it should be acceptable to put a freeze on new building, grants of citizenship etc.

For a generation the UN has tried to broker a deal without success. Poll after poll show that the majority of TCs and GCs do not want each other as neighbours or marriage partners. As it seems that we will never get an agreement, why not accept that fact, and have friendly international relations rather than hostile or non-existent ones, and let the relationship grow stronger through the mutual interests of living next to each other on the same island.

Little could have been worse than French-German relationships in 1945, and those between many other EU countries, but mutual interests have led to far greater cooperation than any number of individual, bitterly-fought over treaties.


I like it more or less.

Clearly these two peoples cannot sit at a table and negotiate a settlement (because they dont want) and it's clear the current situation is pretty much how it is going to stay.

With a few minor adjustments as proposed above, this will be the most workable and mutually benefical outcome for both sides.

If the turk-cypriots are willing to reduce their total percentage of land under their control to something like 25-26%, and give up any claims to land in south cyprus, then the greek cypriots should be able to recognise the TRNC as a separate and independent country..

I know, i know I can see the people slamming on their keyboards now, claiming ethnic cleansing, this and that, do you know what happened in 1963, 1974, etc, etc....but hey Cyprus had a chance to negotiate a settlement and try to re-unify but clearly the will just doesnt exist for this happen

A practical and realistic proposal listed above is the most sensible

To the turk cypriots....you will be giving up a certain percentage of land in the TRNC and also your land holdings in south cyprus...but if you still hold land in the 25-26% range you are still doing well...and on the plus side you are a recognised country

to the greek cypriots...you reclaim some land from TRNC and also the turk-cypriot land in south cyprus. i haven't done the maths but a large percentage of the greek cypriot refugee would either return to lands given back, or be given the turk-cypriot land in the south as compensation. Think about it...the turks owned about 15-18% of cyprus in 1974. Under the above they would have 25-26%, an increase of approx. 10%.

Also the greek cypriots, no matter what is said, we (i am gc desendant) would never share power with the turks. it just wouldnt happen.

let us go our separate ways, make the best out of this ridiculous situation, and get on with our lives
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Postby Sahin Turk » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:48 am

Has anyone considered partition?
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Postby Kifeas » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:55 am

Sahin Turk wrote:Has anyone considered partition?


If you are ready to stay in only 18% of Cyprus and pay compensation for the exploitation of twice as much land for the last 33 years, we may consider it!
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Postby free_cyprus » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:59 am

what a lot of cobllers you lot are talking in here..................... whole of cyprus is in the european union lol..............even thought europe recognises the north as occupied. the turkish speaking people of the north can come and go to europe as they like and thousands of them do. they cross the border and get a european pasport and they travel
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