The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Good News: Survey of Turkish Cypriots now complete!

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby Alexandros Lordos » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:49 am

Hmm, thanks for the criticism Erol, I wrote and published the report in such a big rush that I never got the chance to check with other people if any of my comments are offensive.

Actually, my statement is backed up by evidence, "modernization of the state via EU membership" is a primary motive for 70% of TCs, whereas "reunification with GCs" was a primary motive for only 25% of TCs. So my comment was a neutral statement of fact, rather than a subjective critique of the TC community.

Perhaps I needed a special chapter in my report to focus on motivations, if that had been there first then my comment would not have seemed so out of place.

Anyway, keep on reading and let me know what else you find. It is not too late to fix things.
Alexandros Lordos
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 987
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:41 pm

Postby magikthrill » Wed Feb 16, 2005 9:58 am

metecyp wrote:This is not true. 80.000 TCs demonstrated for reunification 2-3 times and that's when Turkey realized that not all TCs think like Denktas in regard to Cyprus problem. Then, other factors such as Turkey's EU candidacy, enhanced the process but again if TCs did not gather in the north and show their true will collectively, nothing would have happenned.

I should also add the opening of the borders was also in part due to TC efforts. A TC, Ahmen An, brought Turkey to EHRC for not letting him pass to the south and he won the case. This case plus the famous Loizidou case compelled Turkey to do something about the borders.

So as you can see my friend, you cannot ignore the collective will and effort of TCs for reunification. We're yet to see such a move from the south though.


metecyp,

i did not know that about the borders. i guess i undermined efforts of the TCs.

However, you cannot deny the fact that Turkey is the one who plays the biggest role and will only listen to demands of TCs if it is to her best interest. This is not criticism, just pointing out the obvious.

As far as the "south", or internationally known as the RoC, I don't think you can say allowing TCs to obtain their proper documents and healthcare aid nothing.
magikthrill
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2245
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 10:09 am
Location: Athens, Greece

Postby erolz » Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:43 pm

Alexandros Lordos wrote:Hmm, thanks for the criticism Erol, I wrote and published the report in such a big rush that I never got the chance to check with other people if any of my comments are offensive.


I understand the time pressure of preparing a document like you have to a tight deadline. My comments are not so much about me taking offence. I made my comments because I would like your document to be as 'good' as it can and not to have opportuintes for it to be dismissed as 'partisan'

Alexandros Lordos wrote:Actually, my statement is backed up by evidence, "modernization of the state via EU membership" is a primary motive for 70% of TCs, whereas "reunification with GCs" was a primary motive for only 25% of TCs. So my comment was a neutral statement of fact, rather than a subjective critique of the TC community.

Perhaps I needed a special chapter in my report to focus on motivations, if that had been there first then my comment would not have seemed so out of place.


Understood. In light of this evidence I guess my problem is with the phrase "in the first place". I think changing that to "in regard to the Annan plan" or something similar would remove my 'concern' at this phrase. It just sounds like TC had no desire for a solution before there was a prospect of EU entry as part of a solution and I do not think that is an acurate or fair assement. Does that make sense?


Alexandros Lordos wrote:Anyway, keep on reading and let me know what else you find. It is not too late to fix things.


Will do - if I can find the time after trying to discuss the TC people status as a people and rights as a people with Piratis for the umpteenth time.
erolz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2414
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 5:00 pm
Location: Girne / Kyrenia

Postby metecyp » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:04 am

magikthrill wrote:However, you cannot deny the fact that Turkey is the one who plays the biggest role and will only listen to demands of TCs if it is to her best interest.

Yes, it's true that Turkey plays the biggest role but again TC efforts also helped to reach to the current situation, that's all I wanted to point out. And the reason is I don't like to hear people, like Papadopoulos, completely ignore TCs and try to solve the Cyprus problem with Turkey. It ain't gonna happen.
As far as the "south", or internationally known as the RoC, I don't think you can say allowing TCs to obtain their proper documents and healthcare aid nothing.

I'll repeat again. This is the minimum Papadopoulos could do for TCs in order to continue to claim that the RoC represents TCs as well. Just think about it, if the RoC did not allow TCs to have ID cards, how could Papadopoulos ever claim that the RoC exists? But the heart of the RoC is the TC representation (70:30 in House of Representatives and TC Vice President). Did you ever hear anyone in the south sincerely asking/encouraging TCs to fill these positions? No!
User avatar
metecyp
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Cyprus/USA

Postby -mikkie2- » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:12 am

Your parliament voted to not recognise the existance of the RoC! So how can you say that the GC's don't want you back in it when you yourselves refuse to re-enter it! Call the GC bluff. Why don't you ?
-mikkie2-
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1295
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 12:11 am

Postby boulio » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:05 am

But the heart of the RoC is the TC representation

no the heart of the ROC is its people that withstould 30 years of occupation and 1/3 of its population as refugees to flourish to a full EU member in record time.not the t/c and there lack of representation in the govt.with there empty chairs in parliment.
boulio
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:45 am

Postby metecyp » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:05 am

mikkie2 wrote:Your parliament voted to not recognise the existance of the RoC! So how can you say that the GC's don't want you back in it when you yourselves refuse to re-enter it!

No, the TRNC parliament voted not to recognize the Hellinezed Republic of Cyprus because if they recognized the structure in the south as the RoC, it would have meant that TCs accept the injustice done to them since 1963. And please don't expect TCs to return back when you have a president who doesn't even believe in the RoC himself (he was against it in 1959!) who was an ex-EOKA member and who regards TCs nothing but mere minority. Maybe we can consider going back after you change the Greek national anthem of the RoC.
boulio wrote:no the heart of the ROC is its people that withstould 30 years of occupation and 1/3 of its population as refugees to flourish to a full EU member in record time.not the t/c and there lack of representation in the govt.with there empty chairs in parliment.

I'm not surprised that those empty seats don't bother you and the "democratic" community in the south. Keep blaming Turkey for everything and that will solve all our problems.
User avatar
metecyp
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Cyprus/USA

Postby boulio » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:09 am

I'm not surprised that those empty seats don't bother you and the "democratic" community in the south. Keep blaming Turkey for everything and that will solve all our problems.

the problem is that it does bother me and that YES it is turkey and certain g/c and t/c fault for those empty seats being empty.
boulio
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:45 am

Postby pantelis » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:07 am

Did you ever hear anyone in the south sincerely asking/encouraging TCs to fill these positions? No!


The TCs will have elections next month.
Elect the 30 representatives to fill the 30 seats and send them over to the parliament building. To roads are open, now.
Let's see what happens after that! Who can stop them from taking and staying in these seats?
pantelis
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 391
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:41 am
Location: USA

Postby boulio » Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:18 am

TURKEY
boulio
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:45 am

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem Solution Proposals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests