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Rebuild the trust between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Rebuild the trust between the Turkish and Greek Cypriots

Postby mem101 » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:02 pm

Humanist wrote:

"VP it is inevitable that Turkish speaking Cypriots will be influnced by the greek Speaking Cypriots as are Greek Speaking Cypriots will inevitably be influenced by Turkish Speaking Cypriots. We already have, frankly I see that as a positive thing. I like using the word "teneke" I love hearing the word "gusel"? (not sure about the speling. VP in 2007 with the advent of the internet it is inevitable that most cultures/ societies and communities are influencing one another. That is called development and evolution.

Yes Greek Speaking Cypriots will still go to church, but why is that offensive to a turkish speaking cypriot? should I find it offensive if a turkish speaking cypriot goes to a mosque if a bahai goes to their place of worship? I do not I embrace and try and learn from them.

I doubt it very much that in a European Cyprus in 2007 anyone will force anyone to change their culture, religion or language. You have the right to be influenced as much or as little as you like. If I observed somethng from another culture that I thought was for my betterment ofcourse I would choose to accept it and practice it. If not I don't. But that is me. We are all different. Are you telling me that turkish people in turkey have not been influened by the west? are you telling me that turkish speaking cypriots have not been influenced by turkey and the west?

VP if we come to a point f accepting each human being as a creation of Allah then we can accept that some of us speak, greek/ turkish/ english/chinese/hebrew and we can live together in harmony, if our narrow minds allow us to expand our knowledge and horizons there are so many benefits in different cultures living together.

Yes finally I believe that the greek speaking cypriot leadership ought to acknowledege the past wrongs on turkish speaking cypriots by some fanatics at the time and create an atmosphere that will ensure personal safety as well as an encouragement of the continuation of turksih speaking cypriot culture. This is to be done through education, in all schools in all grades, and classess for adults to learn the languages of each otherthrough the newlly proposed cultural centre, when signatories from thre international arena visit grek/ turkish dances and customs ought to be applied, as well as jewish and armenian, we are all co-owners of this Island and need to represent its rich cultural heritage, and that is of-course forever canging. I assure you that weddings in cyprus today are not the weddings that i remember as a 10 year old in a hot summner night at the village square. So what i mean to say in this last sentence culture is forever evolving and changing as the modern world does too."



I've been reading posts on this forum for a couple of weeks now but this is the first tme I have felt the urge to make a post of my own. I am a Turkish Cypriot born and living for my whole life in the UK. I hope to return to Cyprus for the first time in 17 years (I'm 24) this summer.

Humanist, I think your above post is probably the best argument I have seen on this forum for unification. The problem is that there are not yet enough people with that same mindset and the ones who do have it are overshadowed by the outspoken extremists - and mis- or under-informed people who maintain grudges over issues for which they do not really have a full knowledge.

If we ignore the influence of other countries and organisations the main issue becomes the issue of trust between the two communities. In your last paragraph you state that the Greek Cypriot leadership should acknowledge some of the past wrongs on the Turkish Cypriots. This would be a good step towards re-establishing that trust but I don't think its enough. At the end of the day the truth of the matter is that there are five times as many GCs on the island as there are TCs. For a fully integrated island with no foreign military to become a reality, the TCs need to be able to trust their fellow countrymen completely. And this is not to say that trust and admission to past wrongs is not a two way thing - it is.

I believe that for a unification plan to be both beneficial and appealing to at least 90% of the population on the island, it should be a slow process where a relationship and trust is rebuilt. This is as opposed to a relatively quick solution like the Annan Plan which could be put into effect with only 51% of the island actually wanting it to happen. My suggestion for a first step here is for both communities to recognise the other as an independant and legal entity where the systems of government in those entities work closely together for the benefit of one another and with the goal of reunifying the island at a suitable, but as yet undefined (or relatively distant) future date. Simultaneously to this recognition, Turkish troops could begin to be pulled out of Cyprus.

I am no politician. There are many other things to be considered but how does this idea fit with you, Humanist? And to all the other Greek and Turkish Cypriots on this forum, the same question?
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:44 pm

Dear mem101...A big welcome to you to the forum.we need as many people like you as we can get on this forum...young,sensible,not brainwashed by anti-GC propaganda which has been going on relentlessly since 1920s, at the very least...And vice versa,of course...

It is very promising that you see our ultimate aim as reunification.And you are right when you say this will/can only happen when trust,understanding and respect are build between the two sides. The problem is of course that after all these years there are vested interests on both sides,plus the usual foreign suspects,who would rather see the status quo remain indefinitely. Time I believe is not on the side of those who want reunification.Some people are counting on this to achieve their aim of permanent partition of our homeland.

I belive we need to come to the realisation that we are one people,one nation,divided by two artificial factors which should not matter in this day and age.The more we insist on duality (two states,two zones,two communities) etc the more we highlight our differences,and the more difficult the process of reunification and one-nation building.

I hope you stick around and post as much as you can,and give us the wisdom of your logic and sensibility.We need all such positives influences as we can get.
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Postby cypezokyli » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:47 pm

welcome mem
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Postby mem101 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:07 pm

Thanks for the welcome and your kind words.

I see what you're saying about duality tearing the cypriot community apart, but that is the situation as it stands today and we are working towards bringing those communities together at the moment. By simply acknowledging the each others communities as legal entities and communicating with one another, that IS a step towards reunification. I believe that partitionists who think that partition is the only forward think this way BECAUSE there is no acknowledgement, no real communication, just constant isolation and political estrangement. THIS is a part of the evidence for the "propoganda" (which is present on both sides). A move such as the one I am suggesting may slowly bring those people around to the realisation that there IS another way forward - a better way.

Cypriots have kept themselves in two parts for so long. If the international community sees them cooperating, and they start speaking to the world together instead of separately, other nations will have less and less say about what happens on our island.
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Postby lupusdiavoli » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:25 pm

Get real Birkibrisli.

Your reference on one nation has no ground. Which is this single nation? You can speak for co-existence etc. but you cannot create a nation based on your desires. There are 2 communities on the base of different ethnic origin. Admiting reality is the first step not the opposite.

mem101,

You are obviously not familiar with politics. "...Acknowledging the each others communities as legal entities..." Do u really understand the results of such recognition? Would it be any reason for unification afterwards? Do u know what a federation or confederation is? It would be the final step towards partition but you rather prefer to put trust on the good nature of people.

Cypriots have kept themselves in two parts for so long. This is valid. There are good reasons for it. Being in UK you have in mind different situations. The island is cought between the straggle of Turkey and Greece. It was inevitable. The final winner shall define the status on the island. Untill then T/C have on their side the time factor and the reality on the ground. Unless u think that they may give something back as proof of good will...
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:32 pm

lupusdiavoli wrote:Get real Birkibrisli.

Your reference on one nation has no ground. Which is this single nation? You can speak for co-existence etc. but you cannot create a nation based on your desires. There are 2 communities on the base of different ethnic origin. Admiting reality is the first step not the opposite.

mem101,

You are obviously not familiar with politics. "...Acknowledging the each others communities as legal entities..." Do u really understand the results of such recognition? Would it be any reason for unification afterwards? Do u know what a federation or confederation is? It would be the final step towards partition but you rather prefer to put trust on the good nature of people.

Cypriots have kept themselves in two parts for so long. This is valid. There are good reasons for it. Being in UK you have in mind different situations. The island is cought between the straggle of Turkey and Greece. It was inevitable. The final winner shall define the status on the island. Untill then T/C have on their side the time factor and the reality on the ground. Unless u think that they may give something back as proof of good will...


I am probably one of the few people who are deadly real in this conflict,lupus gardash...The reality you speak of,the reality on the ground is,as you also say,imposed by the gun by the "victor".The single nation is the nation of Cypriots. The people who have been living on the island for at least 10,000 years,who share the same history,the same geography,the same culture,and the same gene pool.And yes that include people like myself whose mother tongue is Cypriot Turkish and whose religion is a variety of Islam somewhat unlike the one practiced in Turkey...This is the reality,and trying to change that is like trying to plaster over the sun...It will burn your heart and your mind... and sooner or later,it will burn you too... :( :(
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Postby miltiades » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:18 pm

mem101 wrote:Thanks for the welcome and your kind words.

I see what you're saying about duality tearing the cypriot community apart, but that is the situation as it stands today and we are working towards bringing those communities together at the moment. By simply acknowledging the each others communities as legal entities and communicating with one another, that IS a step towards reunification. I believe that partitionists who think that partition is the only forward think this way BECAUSE there is no acknowledgement, no real communication, just constant isolation and political estrangement. THIS is a part of the evidence for the "propaganda" (which is present on both sides). A move such as the one I am suggesting may slowly bring those people around to the realisation that there IS another way forward - a better way.

Cypriots have kept themselves in two parts for so long. If the international community sees them cooperating, and they start speaking to the world together instead of separately, other nations will have less and less say about what happens on our island.


Welcome to the forum mem101 and echoing My dear friends wish may you continue to enhance the forum by intelligent , youthful contributions.

The point that you have raised concerning recognition of the legality of both communities is a valid one provided of course that we do not misunderstand the acceptance of both communities legalities in terms of recognising the status quo of the "TRNC" and hence accepting the ultimate destruction of the island of Cyprus as one independent nation .The RoC is the legitimate government of all Cyprus as you obviously are aware . The T/Cs are or should be part of that establishment as equal citizens , just as you and I are in the UK. The T/Cs are co owners of all of Cyprus , they are legal citizens of the RoC and are entitled to participate in all walks of life without being discriminated against. To bestow "legality " to what is seen by the entire international community as a part of Cyprus under Turkish , NOT T/C , occupation , would spell the end of any prospects of our island ever becoming one since it will in time seize to exist having being absorbed in it's entirety by Turkey , storing problems for the future generations to come.
The solution is one and only one . A united Cyprus .
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Postby miltiades » Thu Apr 12, 2007 9:19 pm

mem101 wrote:Thanks for the welcome and your kind words.

I see what you're saying about duality tearing the cypriot community apart, but that is the situation as it stands today and we are working towards bringing those communities together at the moment. By simply acknowledging the each others communities as legal entities and communicating with one another, that IS a step towards reunification. I believe that partitionists who think that partition is the only forward think this way BECAUSE there is no acknowledgement, no real communication, just constant isolation and political estrangement. THIS is a part of the evidence for the "propoganda" (which is present on both sides). A move such as the one I am suggesting may slowly bring those people around to the realisation that there IS another way forward - a better way.

Cypriots have kept themselves in two parts for so long. If the international community sees them cooperating, and they start speaking to the world together instead of separately, other nations will have less and less say about what happens on our island.
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Postby lupusdiavoli » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:22 pm

Gardash?

Hosh Geldin...

I cannot but agree that the reality on the ground is,as you say,imposed by the gun by the "victor". Nicely put. It doesn' t mean that I like it or dislike it. This is the sense of reality after all. It is what it is and not what it "should be". The meaning of the term "nation" is far from the way u used it. It is may be the case that you meant one single state. State and nation are different terms. But yes legally speaking in a constitutional sense it "should be" one single state.

You refer to common culture, that is mostly popular culture. Nevertheless culture has many faces and different versions. Not everything is common. It is not even necessary to have everything in common anyway to live side by side. You think of reality in a different sense and that is acceptable. I do not mind at all. I prefer another one. I do not know about the sun etc. It could help if I saw some arguments instead of imaginative wording.

The issue is basically that u perceive the solution in finding common ground between the 2 ethnic elements of the island. Even better u think that if you assimilate them or reinvent them as one they will stand under the sun... as one. This is an old idea. The same experiment failed elsewhere. The blood through the process is still fresh u know.

You can still maintain your differences and your ways and accept the other on a mtual base. BUT politics are in the way. And history as well even yes there are people from each side, I accept and I know from experience, that had or have their moments together. This however does not mean one nation. A Cypriot nation is an artificial term. A Cyprus state no.

For the moment the sun has not yet rise. I don' t even know if it will ever follow that path. Even the metaphor of using the sun is an old idea. I recon its origin clearly. The sun I cannot see. Anyway I prefer darkness. It goes together with my diavolic nature!
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Postby mem101 » Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:44 pm

I suppose, what I am describing is a confederation of sorts, and if so that would be the end of the TRNC which is a republic, i.e. its name and its goals would change. Does that in iself address the issues you brought up Miltiades?

lupusdiavoli, what is your stance on the situation? Your tone suggests that you are either pro-partition or just very sceptical. You said "...prefer to put trust on the good nature of people." Yes I would for several reasons. Firstly, that is how you build trust, by taking a leap of faith, giving and taking a little. Secondly, if a western/european system of government were put in place and the two communities reintegrated with immediate effect, with the economic situation as it is in the north, the TCs would be second rate citizens; so much poorer than GCs. If the TCs are given a fair chance to start "catching up" then when the island is finally and truly reunited, all citizens will be so much better for it don't you think?
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