Official thread for the development of a revised Peace Plan
 Posted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 2:58 pm |
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| brother |
| professor |
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| Joined: 27 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 4711 |
| Location: Cyprus/U.K |
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| blah..blah...blah...blah....the same old scratched record going over again and again, get over it and move on. |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:56 pm |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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| I think it would be a good idea to get back to this thread and perhaps continue on proposed solutions now that we have found a common ground in terms of community rights. |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:30 pm |
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| turkcyp |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 02 Dec 2004 |
| Posts: 1117 |
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I am against GCs participating major political decisions in TC state. These major political decisions are:
a) Federal elections.
b) Statewide decisions regarding choosing of federal elections.
Other than this I do not have any problem even 200k GC coming and settling in the north. As long as there found a way which can sustain the legal challenges by zeaoulos Greeks in courts.
And Annan Plan in my mind does not provide this mechanism. Last April if I was aware of this downfall of the plan, I would not have voted 'Yes'. Unless some proposals are offered to tackle this issue in Annan Plan, I would vote 'No" to the existing shape of Annan Plan.
That is of course my opinion.
Let's not solve this Cyprus problem in order to tell that "We have solved the problem." Let' solve the problem so that it would live for a long time.
At least till we do not need that kind of restrictions like the ones above because we do trust each other, and when we look at a person we see a man or woman without adjectives of Greek or Turkish in the begining.
Take care, |
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| Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:34 pm |
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| boulio |
| instructor |
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| Joined: 23 Dec 2004 |
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by zeaoulos Greeks
your the zealot
turkcyp |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:49 am |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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| turkcyp wrote: |
I am against GCs participating major political decisions in TC state. These major political decisions are:
a) Federal elections.
b) Statewide decisions regarding choosing of federal elections.
Other than this I do not have any problem even 200k GC coming and settling in the north. As long as there found a way which can sustain the legal challenges by zeaoulos Greeks in courts.
And Annan Plan in my mind does not provide this mechanism. Last April if I was aware of this downfall of the plan, I would not have voted 'Yes'. Unless some proposals are offered to tackle this issue in Annan Plan, I would vote 'No" to the existing shape of Annan Plan.
That is of course my opinion.
Let's not solve this Cyprus problem in order to tell that "We have solved the problem." Let' solve the problem so that it would live for a long time.
At least till we do not need that kind of restrictions like the ones above because we do trust each other, and when we look at a person we see a man or woman without adjectives of Greek or Turkish in the begining.
Take care, |
i agree with your turkcyp. however, these limited restrictions should be in terms of politics, not in terms of allowing refugees to return. i have proposed this before but it would be good to have some sort of political system where say after x years (x>50) GCs and TCs can choose to be represented by the most qualified candidate, not the most qualified GC candidate and TC candidate respectively. |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:22 am |
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| turkcyp |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 02 Dec 2004 |
| Posts: 1117 |
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| boulio wrote: |
by zeaoulos Greeks
your the zealot
turkcyp |
Sentiment is mutual boilio,
| magikthrill wrote: |
i agree with your turkcyp. however, these limited restrictions should be in terms of politics, not in terms of allowing refugees to return. |
In my post I have already specified that I do not care the amount of GCs that can settle or return to TC state.
As long as their political participation is restricted in a manner that is not against basic human rights and EU primary law, so that after the solution the constituion is not ripped apart by either EU courts or by ECHR, I do not think there has to be a need for a number restriction like 10%, 20%, 50%, etc. etc.
| Quote: |
| I have proposed this before but it would be good to have some sort of political system where say after x years (x>50) GCs and TCs can choose to be represented by the most qualified candidate, not the most qualified GC candidate and TC candidate respectively. |
Here sentiment is mutual too, but I reckon that day is not that near.
One more thing as well. Also I would not object to any periodical (say every 10 years) referenadum on each community to lift those restrictions from the constituion as well.
Take care |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:06 am |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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i was acutally thinking of mentioning the referenda in my previous post but first wanted to see your response  |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:56 am |
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| Alexandros Lordos |
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Turkcyp,
over the last few days I have been thinking of a system of weighted voting for GCs in the north (and TCs in the south). This would work as follows:
If GCs in the north (or TCs in the south) are less than 2% of the constituent state population, then their vote will be weighted upards to 5% of the total vote, for the state governor and state senate elections.
If GCs in the north (or TCs in the south) are from 2% to 7% of the constituent state population, then their vote will be weighted upwards to 10% of the total vote.
And if GCs in the north (or TCs in the south) are more than 7% of the total constituent state population, then their vote will be weighted upwards to 20% of the total vote, which will be the maximum vote participation of GCs in the north (or TCs in the south), however many they end up being.
This way, modest relocation to the other constituent state will be encouraged, thus guaranteeing the social stability of the solution, but also the political power of each community in its own state will be guaranteed. More importantly, we will escape the risk of creating powerless and voiceless minorities of GCs in the north or TCs in the south.
Furthermore, it will be a reversal of the "Political Equality" argument, to favor Greek Cypriots as well this time, and this will help many GCs to see the solution as more fair.
What do you think? |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:59 am |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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if voter status will be limited than heres my question:
could a GC run for the TC state elections and vice versa? |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:12 am |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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| Alexandros Lordos wrote: |
Turkcyp,
over the last few days I have been thinking of a system of weighted voting for GCs in the north (and TCs in the south). This would work as follows:
If GCs in the north (or TCs in the south) are less than 2% of the constituent state population, then their vote will be weighted upards to 5% of the total vote, for the state governor and state senate elections.
If GCs in the north (or TCs in the south) are from 2% to 7% of the constituent state population, then their vote will be weighted upwards to 10% of the total vote.
And if GCs in the north (or TCs in the south) are more than 7% of the total constituent state population, then their vote will be weighted upwards to 20% of the total vote, which will be the maximum vote participation of GCs in the north (or TCs in the south), however many they end up being.
This way, modest relocation to the other constituent state will be encouraged, thus guaranteeing the social stability of the solution, but also the political power of each community in its own state will be guaranteed. More importantly, we will escape the risk of creating powerless and voiceless minorities of GCs in the north or TCs in the south.
Furthermore, it will be a reversal of the "Political Equality" argument, to favor Greek Cypriots as well this time, and this will help many GCs to see the solution as more fair.
What do you think? |
i do agree with limiting voting rights of residents to allow TCs have the right to make their own laws (As long as they're not unconstitutional) but wouldn't be better if this limiting status is for an x amount of years, after which both communities have referenda and choose to see if they want to keep it this way?
either way if this is not proposed in a solution im sure GCs will still vote for it (as long as they're satisfied with property return)
also , what would the "borders" of each state consist of? the de facto ones that exist now? |
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