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Erdogan Urges France To Drop Armenian Genocide Recognition

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Postby aoxk61 » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:51 am

Even though nearly all the camps, including all the major ones, are said to have been open air, according to Ottoman records, some were not. Dr. Ragib and Dr. Vehib, both, the colleagues of Dr. Said (Health inspector) testified during the Military court, that Red Crescent camps were used to kill by morphine injection and from which bodies were thrown into the Black Sea. In other instances, according to witnesses, there were some small-scale killing and burning camps where the Armenian population was told to present itself in a given area, and was subsequently burned en masse. Eitan Belkind, an ethnic Jew, who served in the Ottoman army as an official, and who also was assigned to the headquarter of Jamal Pasha, has witnessed the burning of 5000 Armenians in such a camp.

Do you want us to tell you the exact co-ordinates of where the bodies are in the black sea too? Oh and i suppose you want us to tell you the exact co-ordinates of bodies that were burnt?
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Postby YeReVaN » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:21 am

Even though nearly all the camps, including all the major ones, were open air, according to records, some were not. Other camps existed, according to the military court, that were irregular Red Crescent camps used to kill by morphine injection (two Saib (health inspector) colleagues, Dr. Ragib and Dr. Vehib, testified during the court) and from which bodies were thrown into the Black Sea. In other instances, according to records, there were some small-scale killing and burning camps where the Armenian population was told to present itself in a given area, and was subsequently burned en masse. Other records from the military tribunal suggest that gassing installations existed as well. Other tribunal testimonies put forth that Dr. Saib and Nail, an Ittihadist deputy, were heading two school buildings used as extermination camps for children. Both Saib and Nail were allegedly in charge of providing the list of children who were to be distributed among the Muslim populace; the rest of the children were to be sent to the mezzanine floor to be killed by a mass gassing installation. The children were sent there under the pretext of taking baths but were poisoned instead.

While the total number of victims that perished in all such camps is hard to establish, it is estimated by some sources at close to a million. This excludes Armenians who may have died in other ways, but may include the special organizations' participation in the events; the majority of the excluded losses are recorded in Bitlis and Sivas.


The special organization (Teshkilati Mahsusa)
While there was an official special organization founded in December 1911 by the Ottoman government, the second organization that participated in what led to the destruction of the Ottoman Armenian community was founded by the lttihad ve Terraki. It technically appeared in July 1914 and was supposed to differ from the existing organization in one important point; according to the military court and other records, it was meant to be a "government in a government" (without needing any orders to act). Later in 1914, the Ottoman government decided to influence the direction the special organization was to take by releasing criminals from central prisons to be the central elements of this newly formed special organization. According to the Ottoman commissions attached to the tribunal (for example the Mzhar commision in Sivas) as soon as November 1914, 124 criminals were released from Pimian prison. Many other releases followed; in Ankara a few months later, 49 criminals were released from its central prison. Little by little from the end of 1914 to the beginning of 1915, hundreds, then thousands of prisoners were freed to form the members of this organization. Later they were charged to escort the convoys of Armenian deportees. Vehib, commander of the Ottoman third army, called those members of the special organization, the “butchers of the human specy.” This organization was led by the Central Committee Members Doctor Nazim, Behaeddin Sakir, Atif Riza, and former Director of Public Security Aziz Bey. The headquarters of Behaeddin Sakir were in Erzurum, from where he directed the forces of the Eastern vilayets. Aziz, Atif and Nazim Beys operated in Istanbul, and their decisions were approved and implemented by Cevat Bey, the Military Governor of Istanbul.


Armenians killed during the Armenian genocideAccording to the same commissions and other records, the criminals were chosen by a process of selection. They had to be ruthless butchers to be selected as a member of the special organization. The Mazhar commission, during the military court, has provided some lists of those criminals. In one instance, of 65 criminals released, 50 were in prison for murder. The lists all gave a disproportionate ratio of those condemned for murder; others imprisoned for minor crimes constituted a clear minority. This selection process of criminals was, according to most Western researchers, clearly indicative of the government's intention to commit mass murder of its Armenian population. It must also be noted that, according to records, physicians participated in the process of selection; health professionals were appointed by the war ministry to determine whether the selected convicts would be fit to apply the degree of savagery of killing that was required.

It is estimated that the members of the special organization have killed hundreds of thousands of Armenians.
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Postby akiner » Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:46 am

could u two pls give me the source where you both copy/pasting
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Postby akiner » Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:40 am

from that re-writed history:
Even though nearly all the camps, including all the major ones, are said to have been open air, according to Ottoman records, some were not.

Could i have a chance to see where/which records are these?

from that re-writed history post:
......which bodies were thrown into the Black Sea

even in ww2 some bodies of dead german soldiers (mostly killed around Crimean) reached turkish shore espically bosphorus(where is the ONLY water flow to outside of blacksea) but somehow there is no record about dead armenian
bodies reached not around turkish coast but also coasts of neighbour countries....And it is really interesting when we consider nearly 1mil mass which creates a high probability


Eitan Belkind, an ethnic Jew, who served in the Ottoman army as an official, and who also was assigned to the headquarter of Jamal Pasha, has witnessed the burning of 5000 Armenians in such a camp.

Another great lie, there was a witness, there was some burning but somehow our witness forgot to say where this event had happened, when we look at the holocaust there was the crime and there was the exact place!!!!!


well again a junkfull post taken from real genocide(jew) stories to create a so-called one, still no evidences no proofs just wordsalad but lads keep up working

once upon the time akiner wrote:
Anyone in this forum, who claims that there was a genocide could post here pls the coordinates of massgraves(OR EVEN CAMPS set up to kill armenian ppl) of that 1.5mil deadbodies If s/he doesnt believe these bodies flied to sky and disappered immediatly....
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Postby bg_turk » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:56 am

aoxk61 wrote:Even though nearly all the camps, including all the major ones, are said to have been open air, according to Ottoman records, some were not. Dr. Ragib and Dr. Vehib, both, the colleagues of Dr. Said (Health inspector) testified during the Military court, that Red Crescent camps were used to kill by morphine injection and from which bodies were thrown into the Black Sea.


I didn't know the turks were that sophisticated to be able to apply morphine injections at a time when the turkish population was miserably starving and sick. All of this is propaganda aimed at drawing a parallel between the Holocaust and the Armenian massacres, there is no historical evidence to support it. In fact I am not aware of any armenian survivor record testifying for this kind of morphine injections. At the time Turkish Red Crescent camps were overwhelmed with Turkish casualties of war, and you are talking about them being used as death camps?

As far as I know the majority of armenians died during their long march trhough the Syrian desert, out of hunger, thirst, exhaustion and hate crimes comitted by the local turks and kurds, seeking revenge for their collaboration with the invading Russian army. The Ottoman army had no intention of destroying the armenian race, but intended to relocate it. Small scale massacres might have occured, but overall the majority of the dead were as a result of this relocation, not as a result of direct kiling by turkish soldiers.

And by the way what do you mean by Millitary Court? Do you mean the Malta Tribunals, because this is the only court in which Ottoman officials were tried for crimes against humanity, and I would like to remind you that all have been freed for lack of sufficient implicating evidence even though Istanbul was under the British control at the time, and the Brits had all the ottoman archives and official documents at their disposal.
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