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IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

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IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby EPSILON » Fri Jun 01, 2007 9:51 am

The generals in Turkey, in their trial to withdraw Ertogan from the political scene is playing a very dangerus (for Turkey) game in boarders with IRAQ.

They try to convist Turkish people that there is a National safety problem with Kurds in order Turkish army obtain more support from the population in the forthcoming elections.

Are the generals going to pass the limits in their plans and finally invate Iraq?

What effect this will have in Turkey's political and social future? What will be the new situation about the relation of Turkey and USA? What will be the changes in Turkey's relation with EU?

It will be any affect on Cyprus problem or relation of Turkey and Greece?
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Re: IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby bigOz » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:17 pm

EPSILON wrote:The generals in Turkey, in their trial to withdraw Ertogan from the political scene is playing a very dangerus (for Turkey) game in boarders with IRAQ.

They try to convist Turkish people that there is a National safety problem with Kurds in order Turkish army obtain more support from the population in the forthcoming elections.

Are the generals going to pass the limits in their plans and finally invate Iraq?

What effect this will have in Turkey's political and social future? What will be the new situation about the relation of Turkey and USA? What will be the changes in Turkey's relation with EU?

It will be any affect on Cyprus problem or relation of Turkey and Greece?

Turkey will fuck Kurdish PKK terrorists again if necessary and does not need permission of anyone to do that.

Turkey will always be the most favoured ally of U.S.A. in Eastern Europe and MIddle East.

Most Turkish people do not give a toss about the EU and recent polls show that public opinion has shifted from supporting joining the EU to more of NOT supporting such a union.

Erdogan's government has changed the whole economic structure and wealth of Turkey in a few years and has great support of public as it is. If there was an election tomorrow, they would probably increase their majority in the parliment. They do not need Kurdish problem to promote themselves!

As for your question in another post, the answer is YES, I have been to South Eastern Turkey numerous times. I have very good Kurdish friends living around Gaziantep, Suruc, and in Iraqi Kurdistan. That is why I know currently none of them are supporting PKK. The people living in these areas are getting wealthier and more comfortable every day - hence they have no desire for any PKK support or presence. In fact in Iraqi Kurdistan, they arrest and imprison PKK terorists on sight - some even ask to be returned to Turkey after their arrests because they feel safer in Turkish authorities hands, than their countrymen in Iraq.

Where does your information come from and how much do you know about what is really going on in the area? Your only loyalty to Kurds probably comes from "Your enemy is my friend" attitude I mentioned before!
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:59 pm

Epsilon, be patient. Just wait and see. Like BigOz says. Turkey needs nobodies' permission to secure its frontier. What the west think? Is Turkey bovvered? Turkey already knows the answer.
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Re: IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby EPSILON » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:18 pm

bigOz wrote:
EPSILON wrote:The generals in Turkey, in their trial to withdraw Ertogan from the political scene is playing a very dangerus (for Turkey) game in boarders with IRAQ.

They try to convist Turkish people that there is a National safety problem with Kurds in order Turkish army obtain more support from the population in the forthcoming elections.

Are the generals going to pass the limits in their plans and finally invate Iraq?

What effect this will have in Turkey's political and social future? What will be the new situation about the relation of Turkey and USA? What will be the changes in Turkey's relation with EU?

It will be any affect on Cyprus problem or relation of Turkey and Greece?

Turkey will fuck Kurdish PKK terrorists again if necessary and does not need permission of anyone to do that.

Turkey will always be the most favoured ally of U.S.A. in Eastern Europe and MIddle East.

Most Turkish people do not give a toss about the EU and recent polls show that public opinion has shifted from supporting joining the EU to more of NOT supporting such a union.

Erdogan's government has changed the whole economic structure and wealth of Turkey in a few years and has great support of public as it is. If there was an election tomorrow, they would probably increase their majority in the parliment. They do not need Kurdish problem to promote themselves!

As for your question in another post, the answer is YES, I have been to South Eastern Turkey numerous times. I have very good Kurdish friends living around Gaziantep, Suruc, and in Iraqi Kurdistan. That is why I know currently none of them are supporting PKK. The people living in these areas are getting wealthier and more comfortable every day - hence they have no desire for any PKK support or presence. In fact in Iraqi Kurdistan, they arrest and imprison PKK terorists on sight - some even ask to be returned to Turkey after their arrests because they feel safer in Turkish authorities hands, than their countrymen in Iraq.

Where does your information come from and how much do you know about what is really going on in the area? Your only loyalty to Kurds probably comes from "Your enemy is my friend" attitude I mentioned before!


The only thing I can say is that you start (As Turks) to remind me the Greek Junta before 1974- They were also acting without to ask anybody and they also considered that they are the most powerfull army in the world.

As for the South East Turkey standard of life let me insist on my opinion
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Re: IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby bigOz » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:01 pm

EPSILON wrote:
bigOz wrote:
EPSILON wrote:The generals in Turkey, in their trial to withdraw Ertogan from the political scene is playing a very dangerus (for Turkey) game in boarders with IRAQ.

They try to convist Turkish people that there is a National safety problem with Kurds in order Turkish army obtain more support from the population in the forthcoming elections.

Are the generals going to pass the limits in their plans and finally invate Iraq?

What effect this will have in Turkey's political and social future? What will be the new situation about the relation of Turkey and USA? What will be the changes in Turkey's relation with EU?

It will be any affect on Cyprus problem or relation of Turkey and Greece?

Turkey will fuck Kurdish PKK terrorists again if necessary and does not need permission of anyone to do that.

Turkey will always be the most favoured ally of U.S.A. in Eastern Europe and MIddle East.

Most Turkish people do not give a toss about the EU and recent polls show that public opinion has shifted from supporting joining the EU to more of NOT supporting such a union.

Erdogan's government has changed the whole economic structure and wealth of Turkey in a few years and has great support of public as it is. If there was an election tomorrow, they would probably increase their majority in the parliment. They do not need Kurdish problem to promote themselves!

As for your question in another post, the answer is YES, I have been to South Eastern Turkey numerous times. I have very good Kurdish friends living around Gaziantep, Suruc, and in Iraqi Kurdistan. That is why I know currently none of them are supporting PKK. The people living in these areas are getting wealthier and more comfortable every day - hence they have no desire for any PKK support or presence. In fact in Iraqi Kurdistan, they arrest and imprison PKK terorists on sight - some even ask to be returned to Turkey after their arrests because they feel safer in Turkish authorities hands, than their countrymen in Iraq.

Where does your information come from and how much do you know about what is really going on in the area? Your only loyalty to Kurds probably comes from "Your enemy is my friend" attitude I mentioned before!


The only thing I can say is that you start (As Turks) to remind me the Greek Junta before 1974- They were also acting without to ask anybody and they also considered that they are the most powerfull army in the world.

As for the South East Turkey standard of life let me insist on my opinion

You are wrong about the current developments concerning the South East, and I hope to enlighten you more on that subject in other posts in future. The truth is, there is no bad treatment of any Turkish citizens of ethnic Kurdish origin. There are many Kurdish MPs in the government and many wealthy Kurdish families all over Turkey. The military is working hard with the government to keep the South Eastern region secure for the economic development to continue.

Likening Turkey to Junta of Greece in early 1970s is complete nonsense! Turkey is governed by a democratically elected government. Like all other governments of Turkey, the armed forces are th eguarantors of a secular democratic state. If th egovernment fail to police the streets against the terrorists or if they show signs of turning the nation into an Islamic state ruled by Sheria Law, then they come down on them like a ton of bricks, and whether you like it or not - that is what the Turkish public expect of them.

Unlike the Greek junta, Turkish people had fully supported all military interventions of the past with open arms. Each coup (that lasted a few months) brought back peace, stopping bloodshed and terrorism. Turkish military never fired a bullet to oppresss its own people. Turkish citizens revere and love their army and do their military service lovingly. Going for military service is a proud occasion for the family, when their sons are seen off with a party. Many Turks from Germany and Holland willingly return to do their military service - but because they reside and work overseas they pay few thousand pounds and do 2-3 months! Some of them cannot even speak Turkish!

Turkish army never claim to be the most powerful army in the world. But it is commonly accepted by Europe and the rest as the most powerful army in the region. They now produce their own warships, submarines, fighter aircraft, landing craft, heavy artillery - depending on purchase of advanced electronic systems and some missliles from abroad, which they have ample supplies of. But at the end of the day, as we all saw in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. no firepower from the air or at a distance can win a war or replace the fighting men on the ground. That is where Turkey's biggest advantage is; they have the biggest modern army in Europe, with 1 million members and 5 million resrvists in case of emergency! 8)
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Re: IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby EPSILON » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:15 pm

bigOz wrote:
EPSILON wrote:
bigOz wrote:
EPSILON wrote:The generals in Turkey, in their trial to withdraw Ertogan from the political scene is playing a very dangerus (for Turkey) game in boarders with IRAQ.

They try to convist Turkish people that there is a National safety problem with Kurds in order Turkish army obtain more support from the population in the forthcoming elections.

Are the generals going to pass the limits in their plans and finally invate Iraq?

What effect this will have in Turkey's political and social future? What will be the new situation about the relation of Turkey and USA? What will be the changes in Turkey's relation with EU?

It will be any affect on Cyprus problem or relation of Turkey and Greece?

Turkey will fuck Kurdish PKK terrorists again if necessary and does not need permission of anyone to do that.

Turkey will always be the most favoured ally of U.S.A. in Eastern Europe and MIddle East.

Most Turkish people do not give a toss about the EU and recent polls show that public opinion has shifted from supporting joining the EU to more of NOT supporting such a union.

Erdogan's government has changed the whole economic structure and wealth of Turkey in a few years and has great support of public as it is. If there was an election tomorrow, they would probably increase their majority in the parliment. They do not need Kurdish problem to promote themselves!

As for your question in another post, the answer is YES, I have been to South Eastern Turkey numerous times. I have very good Kurdish friends living around Gaziantep, Suruc, and in Iraqi Kurdistan. That is why I know currently none of them are supporting PKK. The people living in these areas are getting wealthier and more comfortable every day - hence they have no desire for any PKK support or presence. In fact in Iraqi Kurdistan, they arrest and imprison PKK terorists on sight - some even ask to be returned to Turkey after their arrests because they feel safer in Turkish authorities hands, than their countrymen in Iraq.

Where does your information come from and how much do you know about what is really going on in the area? Your only loyalty to Kurds probably comes from "Your enemy is my friend" attitude I mentioned before!


The only thing I can say is that you start (As Turks) to remind me the Greek Junta before 1974- They were also acting without to ask anybody and they also considered that they are the most powerfull army in the world.

As for the South East Turkey standard of life let me insist on my opinion

You are wrong about the current developments concerning the South East, and I hope to enlighten you more on that subject in other posts in future. The truth is, there is no bad treatment of any Turkish citizens of ethnic Kurdish origin. There are many Kurdish MPs in the government and many wealthy Kurdish families all over Turkey. The military is working hard with the government to keep the South Eastern region secure for the economic development to continue.

Likening Turkey to Junta of Greece in early 1970s is complete nonsense! Turkey is governed by a democratically elected government. Like all other governments of Turkey, the armed forces are th eguarantors of a secular democratic state. If th egovernment fail to police the streets against the terrorists or if they show signs of turning the nation into an Islamic state ruled by Sheria Law, then they come down on them like a ton of bricks, and whether you like it or not - that is what the Turkish public expect of them.

Unlike the Greek junta, Turkish people had fully supported all military interventions of the past with open arms. Each coup (that lasted a few months) brought back peace, stopping bloodshed and terrorism. Turkish military never fired a bullet to oppresss its own people. Turkish citizens revere and love their army and do their military service lovingly. Going for military service is a proud occasion for the family, when their sons are seen off with a party. Many Turks from Germany and Holland willingly return to do their military service - but because they reside and work overseas they pay few thousand pounds and do 2-3 months! Some of them cannot even speak Turkish!

Turkish army never claim to be the most powerful army in the world. But it is commonly accepted by Europe and the rest as the most powerful army in the region. They now produce their own warships, submarines, fighter aircraft, landing craft, heavy artillery - depending on purchase of advanced electronic systems and some missliles from abroad, which they have ample supplies of. But at the end of the day, as we all saw in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq etc. no firepower from the air or at a distance can win a war or replace the fighting men on the ground. That is where Turkey's biggest advantage is; they have the biggest modern army in Europe, with 1 million members and 5 million resrvists in case of emergency! 8)


My dear Friend,

I did not compare today's Turkey's political situation with Greek Junta, despite that in some points have similar attitude, what i compared is the believe that the contry can do anything it wants without to take into consideration the int community. In this regard Greek Junta and Generals in Turkey behaving the same way-

Now pls do not try to convist your selve about the cooperation between Ertogan anf Generals since this start to be heard as a bad joke.

They are trying to find ways even to put him in jail!!!!!!!They have a case now against him- the high court is preparing the documents.

Generals willl be very happy Ertogan to loose the power.

Finally if you, as nation, as population, need two-three months military in charge to restore democracy then the problem is not on your politicians but on you, as population.
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Re: IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby iceman » Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:28 pm

EPSILON wrote:Finally if you, as nation, as population, need two-three months military in charge to restore democracy then the problem is not on your politicians but on you, as population.


I wish you stop referring to Turkish population as "us"....We are Turkish Cypriots :wink:
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Postby bigOz » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:16 pm

Below is probably the answer to some of the earlier claims - implies by Epsilon - taken from todys Turkish daily Sabah:
The Turkish army is no bully

Referring to the claims that the Turkish army has conducted a cross border operation, general Büyükanıt said: "a cross border operation requires political directive."

The AP's claim of a cross border operation being conducted by the Turkish army had wide repercussions in the world media. Barzani said "there is no interference." A website close to MOSSAD said: "there were also conflicts." Chief of the general staff General Büyükanıt gave a harsh reaction: "it requires political directive. The Turkish army is no reckless hoodlum."

Chief of the general staff General Büyükanıt made a final statement on the AP news agency's claim that the Turkish army had entered Northern Iraq. The Chief of the general staff General Büyükanıt said: "The Turkish army is no reckless hoodlum."

General Büyükanıt stated the news was spread on purpose and reminded that such an operation requires instruction from the government and added: "The Turkish army is no reckless hoodlum. We need a political directive for such an operation."
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Re: IS TURKEY GOING TO MAKE THE BIG MISTAKE IN IRAQ?

Postby EPSILON » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:45 pm

iceman wrote:
EPSILON wrote:Finally if you, as nation, as population, need two-three months military in charge to restore democracy then the problem is not on your politicians but on you, as population.


I wish you stop referring to Turkish population as "us"....We are Turkish Cypriots :wink:


This was a post my freind referred to the role of army in mainland Turkey
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