Radical actions for a Solution.
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 Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:16 am |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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LoL, are you serious? You want to tell me that TCs suffered from the invasion as well? turkcyp, i understand the suffering that TCs went through during 63-74 but how they suffered from the 74 invasion I cannot understand. so TCs suffered by the invasion because they "had" to leave their homes but they still managed to move on? i mean i cant even begin to understand how absurd you sound when you say this.
Additionally, let me say I like that saying very much. Second of all, I might be from Athens but my mother is from Cyprus. Her, my grandparents and my aunts were all forced to leave their homes. Also, my uncle is still a missing person. so i think im in a position to judge as much as any cypriot who lives in the UK or US
And finally, you are the only person on this forum that leads me to think that maybe permanent partisan would be better off. But that's me speaking out of spite.
And regardless, in the end it's really not me or you who get to choose what happens with Cyprus. |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:25 am |
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| efe |
| advanced member |
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2004 |
| Posts: 62 |
| Location: Istanbul |
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do not get me wrong.
i did not agree with “Absolute unconditional right of return”. if you check my post you can see that i pointed out
"my opinion is everyone who lost a property in north or south should get their property back if appropriate. if not, they should be given an equivalent valued property in the administration they wish to live in."
By IF APPROPRIATE, I meant this. I agree with the fact that things have moved on. A GC may be the owner of a property 30 yrs ago, however for 30 years somebody else was living in it because she/he had to. Everything seems settled now, i think there must be the least possible amount of "deportations" (movings). however, the previous owner should be payed back loss. (with new land, money or whatever they agree on) if a TC living on a previously GC owned property and accepts to move out, then its another story. the new federal government can help supporting this option. i would not really expect much from Turkey at this point.
ofcourse it is easier for me to recommend stuff because i am not living in cyprus. I just want to participate in this forum and learn from you guys. do not get me wrong please.
saygilar |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:34 am |
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| Piratis |
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| Joined: 10 Mar 2004 |
| Posts: 8631 |
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The TCs loose nothing that rightfully belongs to them. For them "sacrifice" is things like returning back some of the things that they stole accepting to have less ground than what they gained illegally with the invasion, and cut 1/10th of their outrageous demands, that were illegal in the first place.
So TCs have made not a single sacrifice.
On the other hand they expect from us to sacrifice our basic human rights. What they want, if accepted, it is going to be against the EU law, and they demand permanent derogations in order to achieve it.
Turcyp, Erolz and others come and tell us "sure is your human right but ... ", wait a second, how about me telling you the same make "sure is your human right but .. " and try to limit your human rights? And I remind you that keeping 37% or 29% of the ground is not your right, keeping GCs away from north Cyprus is not your right, political equality is not your human right either. therefore so far we have not asked even for a single TC human right to be compromised.
I will post another thread with our human rights that you demand to be compromised, and lets see how many of your rights you will find that we demand to be compromised. |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:27 pm |
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| Alexandros Lordos |
| instructor |
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| Joined: 28 Nov 2004 |
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| efe wrote: |
"my opinion is everyone who lost a property in north or south should get their property back if appropriate. if not, they should be given an equivalent valued property in the administration they wish to live in."
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Efe,
I think your suggestion is very sensible - with "real land" as compensation (rather than bonds) people will feel more secure and also the inflationary effects on the economy of paying out 10 billion dollars in compensation will be reduced.
It is also sensible that the original owner should have a choice, as to where the new plot should be - in his original village, or in the GC constituent state if he does not care so much about returning to the north. However, he should be absolutely free between these two options, he shouldn't be blackmailed with "if you don't want to be a resident in the north then you are not entitled to get land there".
So, proviso notwithstanding, an excellent suggestion ... keep them coming! |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:24 pm |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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Ok so here's my understanding of what you guys are trying to say:
- GC refugees are not entitled to their right of return
- GCs have about 1/4 the voting power TCs have
- TCs get all the EU money
so what exactly are TCs compromising with this "solution"? their illegal state? |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:27 pm |
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| magikthrill |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Sep 2004 |
| Posts: 2245 |
| Location: Athens, Greece |
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oh sorry guys,
i just read read Piratis human rights post. I didn't mean to sound like his "ferefono" ( how do you say this word in english?) |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:34 pm |
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| cannedmoose |
| professor |
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| Joined: 01 Mar 2004 |
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| Location: England |
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| magikthrill wrote: |
oh sorry guys,
i just read read Piratis human rights post. I didn't mean to sound like his "ferefono" ( how do you say this word in english?) |
In English it's "mouthpiece" thrill |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:04 pm |
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| erolz |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 02 Aug 2004 |
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| Location: Girne / Kyrenia |
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| magikthrill wrote: |
Ok so here's my understanding of what you guys are trying to say:
- GC refugees are not entitled to their right of return
- GCs have about 1/4 the voting power TCs have
- TCs get all the EU money
so what exactly are TCs compromising with this "solution"? their illegal state? |
Try this understanding for size and see how it fits ?
- GC will have to compromise on absolute right to return for all, as TC will have to compromise on absolute right to self determination.
- GC will have the same voting rights as TC within their respective states (onr person one vote). At the federal level GC will have four times as much voting power as TC on some issues and equal voting power as TC on other issues.
- TC will need more proportional % of aid to Cyprus until there is parity between the ecomonic levels of the two states that make up a federal Cyprus. |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:14 pm |
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| turkcyp |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 02 Dec 2004 |
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Last edited by turkcyp on Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:01 pm |
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| Piratis |
| Moderator |
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| Joined: 10 Mar 2004 |
| Posts: 8631 |
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I never said that TCs didn't loose. They lost a lot, and they will loose a lot more. Whatever they lost from 74 and after is solely their fault because they support the illegal occupation of Cyprus.
What I said is that they didn't compromise anything.
When you give back part of what you stole is not a compromise.
When you give up part of the self determination right that you claim you have but actually you don't, is not a compromise.
It is like a thief that steals half the belongings of somebody and claims that he owns the other half also, and then he "compromises" by giving up some of what never belonged to him in the first place. Thats not a compromise. |
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