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TALAT TO HOLD CONTACTS IN SWEDEN AND FINLAND NEXT TUESDAY

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Postby Kikapu » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:30 pm

zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:

Shows you how Turkish we are. The transition is much much easier than becoming Greek. What a mouthfull Kikapolous is when you sit down and think about it.




I get it now Zan. We were not saved by Turkey to preserve our Heritage, Culture, Cypriot Turkish Language, Accent and our way of life from the GC's, but rather saved us to be converted to be more like them.

Hell, my twin sister did that when she was married to a Turk (Great Man) and have been living in Turkey for the past 30+ years. It did not take a war to do that, did it.? If people wanted to become Turks, then why didn't Turkey just invite those TC's to come and live in Turkey. If you are so incline to lose every bit of your Identity, you could have just moved to Turkey, so what stopped you. I know, Turkey did not want to import bunch of low class heathens into their country, so they instead exported their own to cross- breed with the TC's to start the assimilation. What the GC's could not do in the last 400 year, Turkey did it in just 33 years, and you are happy to lose your unique self, to become one of 70 million.

Well done Zan. Now there's nothing more special about you I'm afraid.



You are such a confused creature Kikapu. I was not chased out of my country by Turkey and niether were you. What is happening now is a result of what happened in the 60's. We have been sitting around waiting for the "RoC' to accept us and to treat us according to the constitution but none of that has happened. Hundreds of great minds from all over the world have come up with plan after plan to resolve the problem but the "RoC" seems to think that it knows better. I am a Turkish Cypriot and will always be a Turkish Cypriot and nothing that Turkey, Greece or the "RoC" does will change that. Of course if you had your way then all the GCs will drive around in 4X4's and the TCs will ride on donkeys for your pleasure. Tell me how much of your beloved old world Cyprud was left when you visited it. I seem to remember that there were many complaints, especially from Birs village.
Can you also tell me which region of Turkey we will follow :roll:


I really did not get the 4x4 and the Donkey bit. As a matter of fact, I do miss riding on a donkey. :lol:

I do not sit here and applaud what the RoC did and did not do and the plight of the TC's from their homes, but at the same time, I do not sit here and applaud what Turkey did in 74, with the plight of the GC's. Just because the RoC may not have done much use of the 1960 Constitution, it did not mean Turkey could not have carried out it's guarantor duties and re establish them after the 74 failed coup attempt. Don't you think the last 33 years would have been avoided if Turkey did that. They could have stayed for few years just to make sure it was back on the right track, couldn't they.? They stayed anyway, so why not stay and be the guardians of the 1960 Constitution, in which time Greece would become a Democratic Country again, and also most of the Enosis aspirations would have left large majority of the GC's.

You may still be a Turkish Cypriot Zan, but only in name, because in Spirit, you have already surrounded yourself to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture of Turkey.
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Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:25 pm

Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:

Shows you how Turkish we are. The transition is much much easier than becoming Greek. What a mouthfull Kikapolous is when you sit down and think about it.




I get it now Zan. We were not saved by Turkey to preserve our Heritage, Culture, Cypriot Turkish Language, Accent and our way of life from the GC's, but rather saved us to be converted to be more like them.

Hell, my twin sister did that when she was married to a Turk (Great Man) and have been living in Turkey for the past 30+ years. It did not take a war to do that, did it.? If people wanted to become Turks, then why didn't Turkey just invite those TC's to come and live in Turkey. If you are so incline to lose every bit of your Identity, you could have just moved to Turkey, so what stopped you. I know, Turkey did not want to import bunch of low class heathens into their country, so they instead exported their own to cross- breed with the TC's to start the assimilation. What the GC's could not do in the last 400 year, Turkey did it in just 33 years, and you are happy to lose your unique self, to become one of 70 million.

Well done Zan. Now there's nothing more special about you I'm afraid.



You are such a confused creature Kikapu. I was not chased out of my country by Turkey and niether were you. What is happening now is a result of what happened in the 60's. We have been sitting around waiting for the "RoC' to accept us and to treat us according to the constitution but none of that has happened. Hundreds of great minds from all over the world have come up with plan after plan to resolve the problem but the "RoC" seems to think that it knows better. I am a Turkish Cypriot and will always be a Turkish Cypriot and nothing that Turkey, Greece or the "RoC" does will change that. Of course if you had your way then all the GCs will drive around in 4X4's and the TCs will ride on donkeys for your pleasure. Tell me how much of your beloved old world Cyprud was left when you visited it. I seem to remember that there were many complaints, especially from Birs village.
Can you also tell me which region of Turkey we will follow :roll:


I really did not get the 4x4 and the Donkey bit. As a matter of fact, I do miss riding on a donkey. :lol:

I do not sit here and applaud what the RoC did and did not do and the plight of the TC's from their homes, but at the same time, I do not sit here and applaud what Turkey did in 74, with the plight of the GC's. Just because the RoC may not have done much use of the 1960 Constitution, it did not mean Turkey could not have carried out it's guarantor duties and re establish them after the 74 failed coup attempt. Don't you think the last 33 years would have been avoided if Turkey did that. They could have stayed for few years just to make sure it was back on the right track, couldn't they.? They stayed anyway, so why not stay and be the guardians of the 1960 Constitution, in which time Greece would become a Democratic Country again, and also most of the Enosis aspirations would have left large majority of the GC's.

You may still be a Turkish Cypriot Zan, but only in name, because in Spirit, you have already surrounded yourself to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture of Turkey.


Allow me to say to your last comment a very big load of crap. You have been fighting two different fronts with the same mentality ever since you joined this forum. The problem we have with what the GCs are doing and what we have to do in order to "save" ourselves from the Turks are two different things. We cannot jump out of the one front into another and hope that both are solved. When we have established our control in Cyprus then we can think about how to conserve our Cypriotness. The method you are offering is not the way and is just another way of losing it. We have been saying all along that only if we have to choose between the two we will always chose what we are and that is Turkish. We have had to choose since the Annan Plan OXI so we did.


You are also confusing the fact that the negotiating table has been set up and has been used many times in order to get this thing sorted but you do not see the Greek intransigence as being part of the reason that there has been no agreement on this. After the intervention Makarios was still after changing the construction and because of what happened other problems had to be solved as well. Was it an accident that Makarios supposedly had a heart attach just before he and Denktas signed an agreement. I realise that what I am saying is that Makarios was killed but the fact is that an agreement was about to be signed. Why was it not honoured after his death? The GCs seem to have a lot of these changes of mind at the last moment. Do you suspect something like the rest of us do or are you going to carry on telling us that the GCs are all above board on this and always have been. The party line that you have adopted gives all the benefit of the doubt to them and like them you are playing the game where you concentrate on Turkey and ignore the victims in all of this and that is the entire TC people and not just a fraction that claim to be refugees. We are not struggling for just the rights of a fraction of our people but of an entire race. I would be grateful if you would tackle each and every one of my comments and not make your usual sweeping statement that we are under attack from the Turks and that our only salvation is to run into the arms of our persecutors.
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:04 pm

zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
I really did not get the 4x4 and the Donkey bit. As a matter of fact, I do miss riding on a donkey. :lol:

I do not sit here and applaud what the RoC did and did not do and the plight of the TC's from their homes, but at the same time, I do not sit here and applaud what Turkey did in 74, with the plight of the GC's. Just because the RoC may not have done much use of the 1960 Constitution, it did not mean Turkey could not have carried out it's guarantor duties and re establish them after the 74 failed coup attempt. Don't you think the last 33 years would have been avoided if Turkey did that. They could have stayed for few years just to make sure it was back on the right track, couldn't they.? They stayed anyway, so why not stay and be the guardians of the 1960 Constitution, in which time Greece would become a Democratic Country again, and also most of the Enosis aspirations would have left large majority of the GC's.

You may still be a Turkish Cypriot Zan, but only in name, because in Spirit, you have already surrounded yourself to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture of Turkey.


Allow me to say to your last comment a very big load of crap. You have been fighting two different fronts with the same mentality ever since you joined this forum. The problem we have with what the GCs are doing and what we have to do in order to "save" ourselves from the Turks are two different things. We cannot jump out of the one front into another and hope that both are solved. When we have established our control in Cyprus then we can think about how to conserve our Cypriotness. The method you are offering is not the way and is just another way of losing it. We have been saying all along that only if we have to choose between the two we will always chose what we are and that is Turkish. We have had to choose since the Annan Plan OXI so we did.


You are also confusing the fact that the negotiating table has been set up and has been used many times in order to get this thing sorted but you do not see the Greek intransigence as being part of the reason that there has been no agreement on this. After the intervention Makarios was still after changing the construction and because of what happened other problems had to be solved as well. Was it an accident that Makarios supposedly had a heart attach just before he and Denktas signed an agreement. I realise that what I am saying is that Makarios was killed but the fact is that an agreement was about to be signed. Why was it not honoured after his death? The GCs seem to have a lot of these changes of mind at the last moment. Do you suspect something like the rest of us do or are you going to carry on telling us that the GCs are all above board on this and always have been. The party line that you have adopted gives all the benefit of the doubt to them and like them you are playing the game where you concentrate on Turkey and ignore the victims in all of this and that is the entire TC people and not just a fraction that claim to be refugees. We are not struggling for just the rights of a fraction of our people but of an entire race. I would be grateful if you would tackle each and every one of my comments and not make your usual sweeping statement that we are under attack from the Turks and that our only salvation is to run into the arms of our persecutors.


If I had to choose from being a Greek or Turkish, I would choose to be Turkish also. But who has been forcing you to become Greek. I'm choosing to stay Turkish Cypriot, so what the hell does the Annan Plan's OXI has to do with anything, that you have chosen to become Turkish (Turk).

I'm not going to get myself into Makarios's death (murder) stories, since I do not know anything about it, as well as the proposed signing of the deal between Denktash. I hope Piratis, Bananiot, Birkibrisli, Pyro or Kifeas can take that question of my hands.

Zan, one of these days, you are going to send me the GC "party line" that I'm supposed to have adopted, because I do not know of any such lines. My desires are to have a working Cypriot Country where every one's rights are preserved, and not just the GC's, as you seem to claim. The question is, how do we go about doing it. You have made statements that my methods for a solution is to favour the GC's. May I ask you politely "are you on planet Earth Zan".

I and Bir are the ones who speaks out against our race disappearing from the "TRNC", and it is you and others who are in fact helping to lose the TC race from the North, by being assimilated in to the Turkish Culture. Take the name change for instance. That was not voluntary, it was forced on the TC's. Who do you think was behind that "great plan" of assimilation Zan. Oh I forgot, TC had the choice to move to the RoC or escape to another country to avoid being assimilated. So by staying in the "TRNC", they in actual fact asked for it.!!! I'm not here to fight Turkey, but to point out what is going on to the TC race. You have said, that the OXI on the AP made it all happen. Actually, the name changes has been going on for over many years before the OXI vote, so lets not blame everything on the AP OXI.

I
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Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:08 pm

What you are refusing to believe or accept,Zan,is that noone wants to persecute you...People just want to get on with their lives,make a good living,provide for their family and enjoy their lives...This is the 21st century...you are stuck in the middle of the 20th....They want to do it in a free and democratic country,where people respect each other's human rights,where equality is entrenched in the constitution,and people's way of life is guaranteed by the law and order...
By insisting that you want special priviledges and guarantees and safeguards,you are making it impossible for the majority of Cypriots to feel free of oppression,liberated and living in a just society respecting international law and the right to sovereignty as an independent nation....
Tell me what right do 20% of one nation's population have to occupy 37 % of the land and go about illegally occupying other people's private property,and turn that part of the country into an open mine for another foreing power to use and abuse as she sees fit???
Tell me what right do the 20% minority have to desecrate other people's historical or religious monuments and sacred places,to turn half of the country into a concrete jungle without any consideration for nature and the environment???
I have given up,Zan,trying to save you ,and the rest of people who think like you, from yourselves...You are hell bent on cultural genocide and assimilation with the nationalist and chauvinist aspect of another foreign nation.But make no mistake about it...When all is said and done,the only thing that will remain in Cyprus is what is left of her geography and the Cypriot nation...Just look at Cyprus' history overt the past 10,0000 years and you will see what I mean...If you allow yourself to open your eyes that is... :( :( :(
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Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:19 pm

Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
I really did not get the 4x4 and the Donkey bit. As a matter of fact, I do miss riding on a donkey. :lol:

I do not sit here and applaud what the RoC did and did not do and the plight of the TC's from their homes, but at the same time, I do not sit here and applaud what Turkey did in 74, with the plight of the GC's. Just because the RoC may not have done much use of the 1960 Constitution, it did not mean Turkey could not have carried out it's guarantor duties and re establish them after the 74 failed coup attempt. Don't you think the last 33 years would have been avoided if Turkey did that. They could have stayed for few years just to make sure it was back on the right track, couldn't they.? They stayed anyway, so why not stay and be the guardians of the 1960 Constitution, in which time Greece would become a Democratic Country again, and also most of the Enosis aspirations would have left large majority of the GC's.

You may still be a Turkish Cypriot Zan, but only in name, because in Spirit, you have already surrounded yourself to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture of Turkey.


Allow me to say to your last comment a very big load of crap. You have been fighting two different fronts with the same mentality ever since you joined this forum. The problem we have with what the GCs are doing and what we have to do in order to "save" ourselves from the Turks are two different things. We cannot jump out of the one front into another and hope that both are solved. When we have established our control in Cyprus then we can think about how to conserve our Cypriotness. The method you are offering is not the way and is just another way of losing it. We have been saying all along that only if we have to choose between the two we will always chose what we are and that is Turkish. We have had to choose since the Annan Plan OXI so we did.


You are also confusing the fact that the negotiating table has been set up and has been used many times in order to get this thing sorted but you do not see the Greek intransigence as being part of the reason that there has been no agreement on this. After the intervention Makarios was still after changing the construction and because of what happened other problems had to be solved as well. Was it an accident that Makarios supposedly had a heart attach just before he and Denktas signed an agreement. I realise that what I am saying is that Makarios was killed but the fact is that an agreement was about to be signed. Why was it not honoured after his death? The GCs seem to have a lot of these changes of mind at the last moment. Do you suspect something like the rest of us do or are you going to carry on telling us that the GCs are all above board on this and always have been. The party line that you have adopted gives all the benefit of the doubt to them and like them you are playing the game where you concentrate on Turkey and ignore the victims in all of this and that is the entire TC people and not just a fraction that claim to be refugees. We are not struggling for just the rights of a fraction of our people but of an entire race. I would be grateful if you would tackle each and every one of my comments and not make your usual sweeping statement that we are under attack from the Turks and that our only salvation is to run into the arms of our persecutors.


If I had to choose from being a Greek or Turkish, I would choose to be Turkish also. But who has been forcing you to become Greek. I'm choosing to stay Turkish Cypriot, so what the hell does the Annan Plan's OXI has to do with anything, that you have chosen to become Turkish (Turk).

So what did you see in the south that said to you that anything is TC? You did not mention anything about that in your story. Is Turkish being taught in schools? What national anthem is played at sporting events? There are plenty more examples but you did not mention any except for hearing a couple of people talking Turkish??????

I'm not going to get myself into Makarios's death (murder) stories, since I do not know anything about it, as well as the proposed signing of the deal between Denktash. I hope Piratis, Bananiot, Birkibrisli, Pyro or Kifeas can take that question of my hands.


I will find the article and post it later.


Zan, one of these days, you are going to send me the GC "party line" that I'm supposed to have adopted, because I do not know of any such lines. My desires are to have a working Cypriot Country where every one's rights are preserved, and not just the GC's, as you seem to claim. The question is, how do we go about doing it. You have made statements that my methods for a solution is to favour the GC's. May I ask you politely "are you on planet Earth Zan".

I have been telling you that I want exactly the same thing but when we make demands on how this is to be achieved you try to tell me that the "RoC" is the way forward. You have spent the last six months at least telling us how greedy the TCs are and how they do not want a solution but when I ask you why the hell they voted yes to unification through the Annan Plan, you tell me its because they had some untoward intensions and that is why. The GCs have always done the right thing, in your mind, and the TCs always the wrong thing. If you have given us any credit at all then please accept my apology and point me to that post. We have legitimate claims and grievances Kikapu and ignoring them will not make them go away. We as a people have had to hang on to our very existence with our fingernails and now that we have actually started to live and believe in our selves and our future is somewhat clearer you stick the boot in. You want a fair deal then listen to all the stories and more importantly understand why people are doing what they are doing. You are far too eager to put down the Turks and "big up" the Greeks.

I and Bir are the ones who speaks out against our race disappearing from the "TRNC", and it is you and others who are in fact helping to lose the TC race from the North, by being assimilated in to the Turkish Culture. Take the name change for instance. That was not voluntary, it was forced on the TC's. Who do you think was behind that "great plan" of assimilation Zan. Oh I forgot, TC had the choice to move to the RoC or escape to another country to avoid being assimilated. So by staying in the "TRNC", they in actual fact asked for it.!!! I'm not here to fight Turkey, but to point out what is going on to the TC race. You have said, that the OXI on the AP made it all happen. Actually, the name changes has been going on for over many years before the OXI vote, so lets not blame everything on the AP OXI.



Before you condemn something I think you should take the trouble to find out why the name changes occurred. I have no time for the name changes and have kept mine in spite of the rest of my family changing theirs. I would very much like to know from you why you are condemning it and what evidence you have to support your argument. I believe you have none and are just spouting off in the same Turk hating manner that you have become accustomed to. Make me happy and put forward a sensible and sustainable argument will you???

The fact that I said nothing about the name change having any association with the OXI vote shows that you are misrepresenting me with your comments. This is a new thing with you and suspect we will be hearing as much about this as we have about your show stopping "Harram" word. I don't know whom you have been talking to but the word does not instil fear into the hearts of Turks when you use it and it is not the all-powerful tool that someone told you it would be. Lest you forget, we are secular peoples and the fear of god is not that prevalent in our lives. :lol:
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Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:58 pm

Birkibrisli wrote:What you are refusing to believe or accept,Zan,is that noone wants to persecute you...People just want to get on with their lives,make a good living,provide for their family and enjoy their lives...This is the 21st century...you are stuck in the middle of the 20th....They want to do it in a free and democratic country,where people respect each other's human rights,where equality is entrenched in the constitution,and people's way of life is guaranteed by the law and order...
By insisting that you want special priviledges and guarantees and safeguards,you are making it impossible for the majority of Cypriots to feel free of oppression,liberated and living in a just society respecting international law and the right to sovereignty as an independent nation....
Tell me what right do 20% of one nation's population have to occupy 37 % of the land and go about illegally occupying other people's private property,and turn that part of the country into an open mine for another foreing power to use and abuse as she sees fit???
Tell me what right do the 20% minority have to desecrate other people's historical or religious monuments and sacred places,to turn half of the country into a concrete jungle without any consideration for nature and the environment???
I have given up,Zan,trying to save you ,and the rest of people who think like you, from yourselves...You are hell bent on cultural genocide and assimilation with the nationalist and chauvinist aspect of another foreign nation.But make no mistake about it...When all is said and done,the only thing that will remain in Cyprus is what is left of her geography and the Cypriot nation...Just look at Cyprus' history overt the past 10,0000 years and you will see what I mean...If you allow yourself to open your eyes that is... :( :( :(



Now that is what I call the official party line. You would make Piratis proud with this whole post Bir.

What right have you got to make such a sweeping statement? How the hell would you know who or what is trying to suppress and assimilate my people? In other places you run down TPap and his administration and then tell me they are not hostile towards me. You constantly confuse the people on the ground and the people in power and what they want. I am sure the head GC man that uses phrases like "Turk Lover" to put down his fellow Greeks has every intention of making it easy for me in Cyprus. The whole world, or rather those that have taken the trouble to look into the Cyprus problem, are saying that special conditions are needed and have taken a hell of a lot of time to put them into a plan but this is not good enough for you or the "RoC" administration. They see the dangers, the fears and the need but you can sit in OZ, not having visited the country for 40 years and tell me that they are wrong. Can you tell me why I should believe you and not them? Are you going to pull another Internet gained qualification out of the hat that shows you are more qualified than they to make such claims? This is the whole problem with the way you have conducted yourself of late. You have changed from the mild mannered student to the all Seeing Eye that has seen nothing. You are willing to play games with peoples lives with the party line of the "RoC' rather than the rest of the world. :roll:
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:06 pm

zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
zan wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
I really did not get the 4x4 and the Donkey bit. As a matter of fact, I do miss riding on a donkey. :lol:

I do not sit here and applaud what the RoC did and did not do and the plight of the TC's from their homes, but at the same time, I do not sit here and applaud what Turkey did in 74, with the plight of the GC's. Just because the RoC may not have done much use of the 1960 Constitution, it did not mean Turkey could not have carried out it's guarantor duties and re establish them after the 74 failed coup attempt. Don't you think the last 33 years would have been avoided if Turkey did that. They could have stayed for few years just to make sure it was back on the right track, couldn't they.? They stayed anyway, so why not stay and be the guardians of the 1960 Constitution, in which time Greece would become a Democratic Country again, and also most of the Enosis aspirations would have left large majority of the GC's.

You may still be a Turkish Cypriot Zan, but only in name, because in Spirit, you have already surrounded yourself to be assimilated into the Turkish Culture of Turkey.


Allow me to say to your last comment a very big load of crap. You have been fighting two different fronts with the same mentality ever since you joined this forum. The problem we have with what the GCs are doing and what we have to do in order to "save" ourselves from the Turks are two different things. We cannot jump out of the one front into another and hope that both are solved. When we have established our control in Cyprus then we can think about how to conserve our Cypriotness. The method you are offering is not the way and is just another way of losing it. We have been saying all along that only if we have to choose between the two we will always chose what we are and that is Turkish. We have had to choose since the Annan Plan OXI so we did.

You are also confusing the fact that the negotiating table has been set up and has been used many times in order to get this thing sorted but you do not see the Greek intransigence as being part of the reason that there has been no agreement on this. After the intervention Makarios was still after changing the construction and because of what happened other problems had to be solved as well. Was it an accident that Makarios supposedly had a heart attach just before he and Denktas signed an agreement. I realise that what I am saying is that Makarios was killed but the fact is that an agreement was about to be signed. Why was it not honoured after his death? The GCs seem to have a lot of these changes of mind at the last moment. Do you suspect something like the rest of us do or are you going to carry on telling us that the GCs are all above board on this and always have been. The party line that you have adopted gives all the benefit of the doubt to them and like them you are playing the game where you concentrate on Turkey and ignore the victims in all of this and that is the entire TC people and not just a fraction that claim to be refugees. We are not struggling for just the rights of a fraction of our people but of an entire race. I would be grateful if you would tackle each and every one of my comments and not make your usual sweeping statement that we are under attack from the Turks and that our only salvation is to run into the arms of our persecutors.


If I had to choose from being a Greek or Turkish, I would choose to be Turkish also. But who has been forcing you to become Greek. I'm choosing to stay Turkish Cypriot, so what the hell does the Annan Plan's OXI has to do with anything, that you have chosen to become Turkish (Turk).

So what did you see in the south that said to you that anything is TC? You did not mention anything about that in your story. Is Turkish being taught in schools? What national anthem is played at sporting events? There are plenty more examples but you did not mention any except for hearing a couple of people talking Turkish??????

Zan, if there are no TC kids in the South, does it make any sense to have Turkish classes. I agree on the National Anthem, but look what's on the "Graffiti Mountain", and tell me that is not an insult.


I'm not going to get myself into Makarios's death (murder) stories, since I do not know anything about it, as well as the proposed signing of the deal between Denktash. I hope Piratis, Bananiot, Birkibrisli, Pyro or Kifeas can take that question of my hands.


I will find the article and post it later.


Zan, one of these days, you are going to send me the GC "party line" that I'm supposed to have adopted, because I do not know of any such lines. My desires are to have a working Cypriot Country where every one's rights are preserved, and not just the GC's, as you seem to claim. The question is, how do we go about doing it. You have made statements that my methods for a solution is to favour the GC's. May I ask you politely "are you on planet Earth Zan".

I have been telling you that I want exactly the same thing but when we make demands on how this is to be achieved you try to tell me that the "RoC" is the way forward. You have spent the last six months at least telling us how greedy the TCs are and how they do not want a solution but when I ask you why the hell they voted yes to unification through the Annan Plan, you tell me its because they had some untoward intensions and that is why. The GCs have always done the right thing, in your mind, and the TCs always the wrong thing. If you have given us any credit at all then please accept my apology and point me to that post. We have legitimate claims and grievances Kikapu and ignoring them will not make them go away. We as a people have had to hang on to our very existence with our fingernails and now that we have actually started to live and believe in our selves and our future is somewhat clearer you stick the boot in. You want a fair deal then listen to all the stories and more importantly understand why people are doing what they are doing. You are far too eager to put down the Turks and "big up" the Greeks.


Sorry Zan, but you and all the Partitionist and the Settlers cannot hide behind the average TC's. I believe they do want a solution, but not those who have gotten free land or gotten rich from dealing with GC land. Why on Earth would these people want peace and have to give up all their illegal gains, and even face prosecution.
If you read my signature, it says "United States of Cyprus", which means 2 states under One country. Does this sound like I want the TC's at the mercy of the RoC, as you put it. I have never claimed that the GC have always done the right thing and the reverse for the TC's. My beef is people like you, that the past is more important than the future. I'm not stuck in the past Zan, and it's about time, that you have also moved 40+ years fast forward.


I and Bir are the ones who speaks out against our race disappearing from the "TRNC", and it is you and others who are in fact helping to lose the TC race from the North, by being assimilated in to the Turkish Culture. Take the name change for instance. That was not voluntary, it was forced on the TC's. Who do you think was behind that "great plan" of assimilation Zan. Oh I forgot, TC had the choice to move to the RoC or escape to another country to avoid being assimilated. So by staying in the "TRNC", they in actual fact asked for it.!!! I'm not here to fight Turkey, but to point out what is going on to the TC race. You have said, that the OXI on the AP made it all happen. Actually, the name changes has been going on for over many years before the OXI vote, so lets not blame everything on the AP OXI.



Before you condemn something I think you should take the trouble to find out why the name changes occurred. I have no time for the name changes and have kept mine in spite of the rest of my family changing theirs. I would very much like to know from you why you are condemning it and what evidence you have to support your argument. I believe you have none and are just spouting off in the same Turk hating manner that you have become accustomed to. Make me happy and put forward a sensible and sustainable argument will you???


I'm not condemning the Name Change Zan, I'm only saying that the last name is now same as the ones from Turks from Turkey, and does not sound anything like a TC name. Don't you agree.?


The fact that I said nothing about the name change having any association with the OXI vote shows that you are misrepresenting me with your comments.
[size=18]
I highlighted your comment in your original post. Go back and read it.
[/size]

This is a new thing with you and suspect we will be hearing as much about this as we have about your show stopping "Harram" word. I don't know whom you have been talking to but the word does not instil fear into the hearts of Turks when you use it and it is not the all-powerful tool that someone told you it would be. Lest you forget, we are secular peoples and the fear of god is not that prevalent in our lives. :lol:


But it is "HARAM" Zan, weather we are secular or not. I'm not trying to make people lose sleep with this word. My God, some people do not have a conscience to be worried with such words, or else they would not sell GC properties that does not belong to them
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Postby miltiades » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:43 pm

zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:The short answer to your question,Kikapu,is yes,the process of assimilation is alive and well in the trnc...The next to go will be the TC accent as you say...Apart from some older politicians and journalists,the only time you will hear the TC accent on TC media is in the advertisements where they sometimes make fun of the heavy TC accent!..
Assimilation is the reason for changing all the old names of Cypriot villages who were mostly from GC origin...And assimilation is the reason why TC committment to religion is also questioned more and more...And the reason why the TCs "Turkishness " is being questioned more and more...And the reason why the education system is the way it is....the reason why Turkish lira is the currency...the reason why you now have adana kebab and lahmacun and pide bread instead of seftali kebabi and firin kebabi and humus corbasi and kibris coregi...that is why some fathers are now demanding "baslik parasi" to wed their daughters...the reason why people drive left-handed cars and kill themselves often in road accidents....yep,the train of assimilation is on course and picking up speed in the fair lawobiding state of trnc...


Kikapu wrote:
Halil,

For generations TC's did not care if they can trace their family roots. The roots were planted in Cyprus, and that was good enough. Having said that, I'm not complaining about having a "Permanent Family Name-Surname" which will make it easier to trace back one's family tree, but it's the nature of those names that I'm questioning, in that, there's no different than the names you will find in Turkey. One can still have a Family Name these days, but why not keep the names you already have. All I'm saying is, that the TC's have given up part of their long history heritage, and that was to have Two First Names, and the names they have been taking now, is exactly as the names one will find in Turkey. Now you cannot tell who is a Turk and who is a True TC, just by reading their names anymore. With these kinds of names taken by the TC's, it is also going to be difficult to separate the Settlers from the Natives. Give another 20 years or so, all the TC's will also sound like Turks from Turkey. I call this being Assimilated by the Turkish Culture from Turkey. So much for those worrying to be assimilated by the Greek Cypriot culture. Needless to say, the TC culture and Identity is eroding slowly but surely.



Shows you how Turkish we are. The transition is much much easier than becoming Greek. What a mouthfull Kikapolous is when you sit down and think about it.


You still don't seem to understand that we have no intention of bdecoming the Apache indians of Cyprus. We have no intension of just becoming the tourist atraction where we do our traditional dances for the paying public but the country is known as a Greek one. I hear that you can get some fantastic entertainment in OZ as well Bir. You know! Those indians that are a minority in Australia that the tourists visit to see how quaint they are. I amn sure you have visited one of these shows and provided the money the Abo's need for more booze. What trinkets did you buy to exhibit in your home????


Two T/Cs to be praised for their sound and mature views and one , a Zombie , with childish nonsensical views such as """""""we have no intention of becoming the Apache indians of Cyprus. We have no intension of just becoming the tourist atraction where we do our traditional dances for the paying public """"

What a load of baloney , what absolute nonsense .
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:14 pm

Kikapu wrote: If people wanted to become Turks, then why didn't Turkey just invite those TC's to come and live in Turkey. If you are so incline to lose every bit of your Identity, you could have just moved to Turkey, so what stopped you. I know, Turkey did not want to import bunch of low class heathens into their country, so they instead exported their own to cross- breed with the TC's to start the assimilation. What the GC's could not do in the last 400 year, Turkey did it in just 33 years, and you are happy to lose your unique self, to become one of 70 million.


Exceptional post by Kikapu.

Unfortunately some TC's just don't seem to understand that there are just two countries not three... one called Turkey predominantly occupied by Turks and one called Cyprus predominantly occupied by Greek Cypriots.

People like Zan and VP think that a mere 120,000 people can invent a place like Narnia and become a nation! At the end of the day, either Turkey will gobble them up and they'll vanish for ever as a people, or Cyprus and their uniqueness will survive. There is no third choice and that's what they find hardest to swallow.
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Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:19 pm

miltiades wrote:
zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:The short answer to your question,Kikapu,is yes,the process of assimilation is alive and well in the trnc...The next to go will be the TC accent as you say...Apart from some older politicians and journalists,the only time you will hear the TC accent on TC media is in the advertisements where they sometimes make fun of the heavy TC accent!..
Assimilation is the reason for changing all the old names of Cypriot villages who were mostly from GC origin...And assimilation is the reason why TC committment to religion is also questioned more and more...And the reason why the TCs "Turkishness " is being questioned more and more...And the reason why the education system is the way it is....the reason why Turkish lira is the currency...the reason why you now have adana kebab and lahmacun and pide bread instead of seftali kebabi and firin kebabi and humus corbasi and kibris coregi...that is why some fathers are now demanding "baslik parasi" to wed their daughters...the reason why people drive left-handed cars and kill themselves often in road accidents....yep,the train of assimilation is on course and picking up speed in the fair lawobiding state of trnc...


Kikapu wrote:
Halil,

For generations TC's did not care if they can trace their family roots. The roots were planted in Cyprus, and that was good enough. Having said that, I'm not complaining about having a "Permanent Family Name-Surname" which will make it easier to trace back one's family tree, but it's the nature of those names that I'm questioning, in that, there's no different than the names you will find in Turkey. One can still have a Family Name these days, but why not keep the names you already have. All I'm saying is, that the TC's have given up part of their long history heritage, and that was to have Two First Names, and the names they have been taking now, is exactly as the names one will find in Turkey. Now you cannot tell who is a Turk and who is a True TC, just by reading their names anymore. With these kinds of names taken by the TC's, it is also going to be difficult to separate the Settlers from the Natives. Give another 20 years or so, all the TC's will also sound like Turks from Turkey. I call this being Assimilated by the Turkish Culture from Turkey. So much for those worrying to be assimilated by the Greek Cypriot culture. Needless to say, the TC culture and Identity is eroding slowly but surely.



Shows you how Turkish we are. The transition is much much easier than becoming Greek. What a mouthfull Kikapolous is when you sit down and think about it.


You still don't seem to understand that we have no intention of bdecoming the Apache indians of Cyprus. We have no intension of just becoming the tourist atraction where we do our traditional dances for the paying public but the country is known as a Greek one. I hear that you can get some fantastic entertainment in OZ as well Bir. You know! Those indians that are a minority in Australia that the tourists visit to see how quaint they are. I amn sure you have visited one of these shows and provided the money the Abo's need for more booze. What trinkets did you buy to exhibit in your home????


Two T/Cs to be praised for their sound and mature views and one , a Zombie , with childish nonsensical views such as """""""we have no intention of becoming the Apache indians of Cyprus. We have no intension of just becoming the tourist atraction where we do our traditional dances for the paying public """"

What a load of baloney , what absolute nonsense .



Really? Where to you put TCs as opposed to GCs financially Miltiades. Was it not Makarios that said that only the people qualified should fill the posts although the Zurich agreement had those posts put aside for TCs. Is this possibly why the "RoC' are trying so hard to get any qualifications that may be obtained in the North negated as well as other reasons. I wish I could get my hands on the modern day Akritas plan to see what the "RoC" has in store for us. Never mind though I am sure it will materialise at some time and then I can die a happy man knowing I was right. You however will do all you can to put a spin on why you said what you said.


Listen Miltiades. I have every wish that you and I can sit under an Olive tree together in Cyprus where I can watch you getting drunk. I have no wish to deliberately sabotage any form of unity but cannot see a way that it can happen with the present situation. You guys are refusing to see the problems because you have been fed so much rubbish about what a fair deal means that you have lost your way. Maybe one day the whole lot of those idiot politicians will surprise us, as often that is the way these things happen, and come up with a deal that will please both sides. It is no good telling me that the "RoC" faultless in all of this because they have had the lions share of sympathy and backing but still no deals have been done. You cannot take the games played by both sides and tell me that we are anywhere near a solution.
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