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TALAT TO HOLD CONTACTS IN SWEDEN AND FINLAND NEXT TUESDAY

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Postby Get Real! » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:25 pm

By the way Zan, you’re quite happy to integrate with 60 million British so why are you having such a big problem integrating with just 800 thousand Cypriots? Oh, I forgot you’re worried that EOKA C might come and kidnap you while you sleep! :)
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Postby Kikapu » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:27 pm

zan wrote:
miltiades wrote:
zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:The short answer to your question,Kikapu,is yes,the process of assimilation is alive and well in the trnc...The next to go will be the TC accent as you say...Apart from some older politicians and journalists,the only time you will hear the TC accent on TC media is in the advertisements where they sometimes make fun of the heavy TC accent!..
Assimilation is the reason for changing all the old names of Cypriot villages who were mostly from GC origin...And assimilation is the reason why TC committment to religion is also questioned more and more...And the reason why the TCs "Turkishness " is being questioned more and more...And the reason why the education system is the way it is....the reason why Turkish lira is the currency...the reason why you now have adana kebab and lahmacun and pide bread instead of seftali kebabi and firin kebabi and humus corbasi and kibris coregi...that is why some fathers are now demanding "baslik parasi" to wed their daughters...the reason why people drive left-handed cars and kill themselves often in road accidents....yep,the train of assimilation is on course and picking up speed in the fair lawobiding state of trnc...


Kikapu wrote:
Halil,

For generations TC's did not care if they can trace their family roots. The roots were planted in Cyprus, and that was good enough. Having said that, I'm not complaining about having a "Permanent Family Name-Surname" which will make it easier to trace back one's family tree, but it's the nature of those names that I'm questioning, in that, there's no different than the names you will find in Turkey. One can still have a Family Name these days, but why not keep the names you already have. All I'm saying is, that the TC's have given up part of their long history heritage, and that was to have Two First Names, and the names they have been taking now, is exactly as the names one will find in Turkey. Now you cannot tell who is a Turk and who is a True TC, just by reading their names anymore. With these kinds of names taken by the TC's, it is also going to be difficult to separate the Settlers from the Natives. Give another 20 years or so, all the TC's will also sound like Turks from Turkey. I call this being Assimilated by the Turkish Culture from Turkey. So much for those worrying to be assimilated by the Greek Cypriot culture. Needless to say, the TC culture and Identity is eroding slowly but surely.



Shows you how Turkish we are. The transition is much much easier than becoming Greek. What a mouthfull Kikapolous is when you sit down and think about it.


You still don't seem to understand that we have no intention of bdecoming the Apache indians of Cyprus. We have no intension of just becoming the tourist atraction where we do our traditional dances for the paying public but the country is known as a Greek one. I hear that you can get some fantastic entertainment in OZ as well Bir. You know! Those indians that are a minority in Australia that the tourists visit to see how quaint they are. I amn sure you have visited one of these shows and provided the money the Abo's need for more booze. What trinkets did you buy to exhibit in your home????


Two T/Cs to be praised for their sound and mature views and one , a Zombie , with childish nonsensical views such as """""""we have no intention of becoming the Apache indians of Cyprus. We have no intension of just becoming the tourist atraction where we do our traditional dances for the paying public """"

What a load of baloney , what absolute nonsense .



Really? Where to you put TCs as opposed to GCs financially Miltiades. Was it not Makarios that said that only the people qualified should fill the posts although the Zurich agreement had those posts put aside for TCs. Is this possibly why the "RoC' are trying so hard to get any qualifications that may be obtained in the North negated as well as other reasons. I wish I could get my hands on the modern day Akritas plan to see what the "RoC" has in store for us. Never mind though I am sure it will materialise at some time and then I can die a happy man knowing I was right. You however will do all you can to put a spin on why you said what you said.


Listen Miltiades. I have every wish that you and I can sit under an Olive tree together in Cyprus where I can watch you getting drunk. I have no wish to deliberately sabotage any form of unity but cannot see a way that it can happen with the present situation. You guys are refusing to see the problems because you have been fed so much rubbish about what a fair deal means that you have lost your way. Maybe one day the whole lot of those idiot politicians will surprise us, as often that is the way these things happen, and come up with a deal that will please both sides. It is no good telling me that the "RoC" faultless in all of this because they have had the lions share of sympathy and backing but still no deals have been done. You cannot take the games played by both sides and tell me that we are anywhere near a solution.


So why doesn't the two sides meet for the July 8th meeting Zan to start sorting things out.?

Is this also not the wish of the International Community.?
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Postby Bananiot » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:38 pm

Because Talat has other priorities at the moment. Direct trade is the most important issue at this moment of time for the Turkish Cypriot community and Talat does not want to stall the process by engaging into never ending talks with Papadopoulos who proposed 96 issues to be debated by the committees!
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:40 pm

zan wrote:You have been fighting two different fronts with the same mentality ever since you joined this forum. The problem we have with what the GCs are doing and what we have to do in order to "save" ourselves from the Turks are two different things. We cannot jump out of the one front into another and hope that both are solved. When we have established our control in Cyprus then we can think about how to conserve our Cypriotness. The method you are offering is not the way and is just another way of losing it. We have been saying all along that only if we have to choose between the two we will always chose what we are and that is Turkish. We have had to choose since the Annan Plan OXI so we did.

There you go, the arrogance of some TCs living in the diaspora who think that their miniscule farming community, who incidentally don't even have a pair of knickers to wear (to use a Cypriot expression), should establish control!!! :roll:

If you really cared for your community you'd be more interested in them getting better paying jobs, better education, better healthcare, etc, and forget about your power dreams because that's something you've got to earn AFTER your community has improved the basics and established itself.
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Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:26 pm

Get Real! wrote:By the way Zan, you’re quite happy to integrate with 60 million British so why are you having such a big problem integrating with just 800 thousand Cypriots? Oh, I forgot you’re worried that EOKA C might come and kidnap you while you sleep! :)



I am getting confused now GR, are you really saying that you do not understand the difference or just up to your old tricks. Just in case you really don't understand then:......

Cyprus is my birthplace and my country regardless of where I live in the world. When people ask where are you from I say the UK but always add that my origin and that of my ancestors is Cyprus. They can understand this and seem to have no problem with it. No funny looks or furled eyebrows.

When an English person asks where I am from I tell them Cyprus straight away and as I have said before they quickly say " oh! Greek". Now though, they say North or South. I have to admit that the next question is almost as infuriating, but only almost, and they ask "Turkish or Greek".
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Postby zan » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:28 pm

Get Real! wrote:
zan wrote:You have been fighting two different fronts with the same mentality ever since you joined this forum. The problem we have with what the GCs are doing and what we have to do in order to "save" ourselves from the Turks are two different things. We cannot jump out of the one front into another and hope that both are solved. When we have established our control in Cyprus then we can think about how to conserve our Cypriotness. The method you are offering is not the way and is just another way of losing it. We have been saying all along that only if we have to choose between the two we will always chose what we are and that is Turkish. We have had to choose since the Annan Plan OXI so we did.

There you go, the arrogance of some TCs living in the diaspora who think that their miniscule farming community, who incidentally don't even have a pair of knickers to wear (to use a Cypriot expression), should establish control!!! :roll:

If you really cared for your community you'd be more interested in them getting better paying jobs, better education, better healthcare, etc, and forget about your power dreams because that's something you've got to earn AFTER your community has improved the basics and established itself.



Is that the same as not giving a man a glass of water and then telling him he is thirsty????
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:30 am

zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:What you are refusing to believe or accept,Zan,is that noone wants to persecute you...People just want to get on with their lives,make a good living,provide for their family and enjoy their lives...This is the 21st century...you are stuck in the middle of the 20th....They want to do it in a free and democratic country,where people respect each other's human rights,where equality is entrenched in the constitution,and people's way of life is guaranteed by the law and order...
By insisting that you want special priviledges and guarantees and safeguards,you are making it impossible for the majority of Cypriots to feel free of oppression,liberated and living in a just society respecting international law and the right to sovereignty as an independent nation....
Tell me what right do 20% of one nation's population have to occupy 37 % of the land and go about illegally occupying other people's private property,and turn that part of the country into an open mine for another foreing power to use and abuse as she sees fit???
Tell me what right do the 20% minority have to desecrate other people's historical or religious monuments and sacred places,to turn half of the country into a concrete jungle without any consideration for nature and the environment???
I have given up,Zan,trying to save you ,and the rest of people who think like you, from yourselves...You are hell bent on cultural genocide and assimilation with the nationalist and chauvinist aspect of another foreign nation.But make no mistake about it...When all is said and done,the only thing that will remain in Cyprus is what is left of her geography and the Cypriot nation...Just look at Cyprus' history overt the past 10,0000 years and you will see what I mean...If you allow yourself to open your eyes that is... :( :( :(



Now that is what I call the official party line. You would make Piratis proud with this whole post Bir.

What right have you got to make such a sweeping statement? How the hell would you know who or what is trying to suppress and assimilate my people? In other places you run down TPap and his administration and then tell me they are not hostile towards me. You constantly confuse the people on the ground and the people in power and what they want. I am sure the head GC man that uses phrases like "Turk Lover" to put down his fellow Greeks has every intention of making it easy for me in Cyprus. The whole world, or rather those that have taken the trouble to look into the Cyprus problem, are saying that special conditions are needed and have taken a hell of a lot of time to put them into a plan but this is not good enough for you or the "RoC" administration. They see the dangers, the fears and the need but you can sit in OZ, not having visited the country for 40 years and tell me that they are wrong. Can you tell me why I should believe you and not them? Are you going to pull another Internet gained qualification out of the hat that shows you are more qualified than they to make such claims? This is the whole problem with the way you have conducted yourself of late. You have changed from the mild mannered student to the all Seeing Eye that has seen nothing. You are willing to play games with peoples lives with the party line of the "RoC' rather than the rest of the world. :roll:


I don't care who I make proud or angry,Zan....I call the shots as I see them...Your refusal to see that Cyprus in 2007 is not the same as Cyprus in 1963/64 is reducing any credibility you might have had in people's eyes....Listen once again....GCs do not want Enosis any more....it is dead and buried...Cyprus is now part of the EU...She is responsible for holding up international law and human rights principles....Eoka is no more...Like Monty Pyton's parrot,it is not asleep but extinct...Sure there are idiots who want to stir up nationalist and ethnic troubles,but they number in hundreds and can be delt with easily by the full force of the law and order.
Sure Tassos is an unfortunate reminder of the past troubles,and if the GCs know what is good for them they will get rid of him next year,but even he is not running around proposing Enosis or ornagising the Eoka c movement....So what are you afraid of????Come and join us and together with our GC compatriots we will fight any and all attempts to stop you from practising your religion or speaking your language in a United Cyprus...The rest of your culture and traditions etc are the same as those of the GCs so what have you got to lose???If you insist on your way,you will have to become all Turkish and all Islamic,and you will have to prove your Turkishness every day of your life,and even that won't be enough... You will have to justify the human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing which has happened to a lot of Cypriots (TCs included) for the past 45 years... And even if your conscience doesn't bother you ,you will still be considered a second rate Turk for the rest of your life and if you ever move to the North your children will curse you forever... :evil:
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Postby humanist » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:41 am

Bir said
I don't care who I make proud or angry,Zan....I call the shots as I see them...Your refusal to see that Cyprus in 2007 is not the same as Cyprus in 1963/64 is reducing any credibility you might have had in people's eyes....Listen once again....GCs do not want Enosis any more....it is dead and buried...Cyprus is now part of the EU...She is responsible for holding up international law and human rights principles....Eoka is no more...Like Monty Pyton's parrot,it is not asleep but extinct...Sure there are idiots who want to stir up nationalist and ethnic troubles,but they number in hundreds and can be delt with easily by the full force of the law and order.
Sure Tassos is an unfortunate reminder of the past troubles,and if the GCs know what is good for them they will get rid of him next year,but even he is not running around proposing Enosis or ornagising the Eoka c movement....So what are you afraid of????Come and join us and together with our GC compatriots we will fight any and all attempts to stop you from practising your religion or speaking your language in a United Cyprus...The rest of your culture and traditions etc are the same as those of the GCs so what have you got to lose???If you insist on your way,you will have to become all Turkish and all Islamic,and you will have to prove your Turkishness every day of your life,and even that won't be enough... You will have to justify the human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing which has happened to a lot of Cypriots (TCs included) for the past 45 years... And even if your conscience doesn't bother you ,you will still be considered a second rate Turk for the rest of your life and if you ever move to the North your children will curse you forever...


Well said Bir ........

As young 13 year old migrant to my new home people asked where are you from? I used to say Cyprus, people used to say ..... where ....... so soon after that to make things easire I began to say Greek ...... ofcourse I was called wog and as innocent I was I used to say thank you. Till I discover what it meant. So the Greek answer went on for a while until I visited a neighbour, who was hosting some friends of their and one of them asked me which part of greece I was from. My response was Cyprus ...... I never said I was Greek again after I was told that your not a Greek what are you on about Cypriots are not Greeks, you never were blah blah blah blah! I went home crying not at the fact that he said I was not greek but at his rudeness and hate towards a 13 year child.


I can only laugh about it.
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Postby zan » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:10 am

Birkibrisli wrote:
zan wrote:
Birkibrisli wrote:What you are refusing to believe or accept,Zan,is that noone wants to persecute you...People just want to get on with their lives,make a good living,provide for their family and enjoy their lives...This is the 21st century...you are stuck in the middle of the 20th....They want to do it in a free and democratic country,where people respect each other's human rights,where equality is entrenched in the constitution,and people's way of life is guaranteed by the law and order...
By insisting that you want special priviledges and guarantees and safeguards,you are making it impossible for the majority of Cypriots to feel free of oppression,liberated and living in a just society respecting international law and the right to sovereignty as an independent nation....
Tell me what right do 20% of one nation's population have to occupy 37 % of the land and go about illegally occupying other people's private property,and turn that part of the country into an open mine for another foreing power to use and abuse as she sees fit???
Tell me what right do the 20% minority have to desecrate other people's historical or religious monuments and sacred places,to turn half of the country into a concrete jungle without any consideration for nature and the environment???
I have given up,Zan,trying to save you ,and the rest of people who think like you, from yourselves...You are hell bent on cultural genocide and assimilation with the nationalist and chauvinist aspect of another foreign nation.But make no mistake about it...When all is said and done,the only thing that will remain in Cyprus is what is left of her geography and the Cypriot nation...Just look at Cyprus' history overt the past 10,0000 years and you will see what I mean...If you allow yourself to open your eyes that is... :( :( :(



Now that is what I call the official party line. You would make Piratis proud with this whole post Bir.

What right have you got to make such a sweeping statement? How the hell would you know who or what is trying to suppress and assimilate my people? In other places you run down TPap and his administration and then tell me they are not hostile towards me. You constantly confuse the people on the ground and the people in power and what they want. I am sure the head GC man that uses phrases like "Turk Lover" to put down his fellow Greeks has every intention of making it easy for me in Cyprus. The whole world, or rather those that have taken the trouble to look into the Cyprus problem, are saying that special conditions are needed and have taken a hell of a lot of time to put them into a plan but this is not good enough for you or the "RoC" administration. They see the dangers, the fears and the need but you can sit in OZ, not having visited the country for 40 years and tell me that they are wrong. Can you tell me why I should believe you and not them? Are you going to pull another Internet gained qualification out of the hat that shows you are more qualified than they to make such claims? This is the whole problem with the way you have conducted yourself of late. You have changed from the mild mannered student to the all Seeing Eye that has seen nothing. You are willing to play games with peoples lives with the party line of the "RoC' rather than the rest of the world. :roll:


I don't care who I make proud or angry,Zan....I call the shots as I see them...Your refusal to see that Cyprus in 2007 is not the same as Cyprus in 1963/64 is reducing any credibility you might have had in people's eyes....Listen once again....GCs do not want Enosis any more....it is dead and buried...Cyprus is now part of the EU...She is responsible for holding up international law and human rights principles....Eoka is no more...Like Monty Pyton's parrot,it is not asleep but extinct...Sure there are idiots who want to stir up nationalist and ethnic troubles,but they number in hundreds and can be delt with easily by the full force of the law and order.
Sure Tassos is an unfortunate reminder of the past troubles,and if the GCs know what is good for them they will get rid of him next year,but even he is not running around proposing Enosis or ornagising the Eoka c movement....So what are you afraid of????Come and join us and together with our GC compatriots we will fight any and all attempts to stop you from practising your religion or speaking your language in a United Cyprus...The rest of your culture and traditions etc are the same as those of the GCs so what have you got to lose???If you insist on your way,you will have to become all Turkish and all Islamic,and you will have to prove your Turkishness every day of your life,and even that won't be enough... You will have to justify the human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing which has happened to a lot of Cypriots (TCs included) for the past 45 years... And even if your conscience doesn't bother you ,you will still be considered a second rate Turk for the rest of your life and if you ever move to the North your children will curse you forever... :evil:



You never answered my question of what qualifications you have over those in the EU and the UN that have decided that the Cyprob is not as simple as you make it out to be and in the same token that attitude is taking away your credibility in many eyes too so I would not throw stones if I were you.
I do love it when people like you make sweeping statements that the year 2007 is more reliable and less dangerous than the past. Take a look around you pal not much has changed and monkeys like you and I are still running this planet.

ENOSIS has already been achieved as I have said before. The joining of the two Greek countries through the EU has happened. The banks are merging, if they have not already done so, the national anthem is the same. The flags fly high and Greece is everywhere. The fact is that they have not won the whole island and that is what me and mine are protecting. They can either give our country back or a double ENOSIS is on the line and making threats that I will become an Islamist plaything is not doing your credibility any good either. Your ghosts are tearing you apart as far as the Turks go and you cannot see it. I have no fear of the Turks my friend because they will do the right thing in the end. We have more integrity than you give us credit for and we are not the animals that you make us out to be. You seem to think that the Greek culture has got more to offer you than ours then that is your choice so live with it but stop running my people down with sweeping statements about there religion and culture. You see yourself as a better person in being Greek then you live with that fallacy but I will carry on believing that one individual or race is no better than the other but just different.
When you have solved all the corruption and injustices of the south then the whole thing might look a little more tempting and we will ask them to join us in a united Cyprus.


In the mean time be sure to go parading around on your high horse because we uncivilised Turks like to see a fool on a horse. Any room up there for TPap....
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:49 am

Zan wrote:You never answered my question of what qualifications you have over those in the EU and the UN that have decided that the Cyprob is not as simple as you make it out to be and in the same token that attitude is taking away your credibility in many eyes too so I would not throw stones if I were you.


I have no other qualifications than being an intelligent and sensitive human being who has lived through the worse of the Cyprus problem,and lived to learn why we had to be deprived of our country,our nation,our sense of self and our sense of security and belonging....If those experts in the EU and UN are so good,Zan,why haven't they solved the problem by now???????

ENOSIS has already been achieved as I have said before. The joining of the two Greek countries through the EU has happened



If you feel that way,that Cyprus is a Greek country,then she is not your country...So why are you trying to steal other people's country from under their noses????
You seem to think that the Greek culture has got more to offer you than ours then that is your choice so live with it but stop running my people down with sweeping statements about there religion and culture. You see yourself as a better person in being Greek then you live with that fallacy but I will carry on believing that one individual or race is no better than the other but just different.


There you go again misrepresenting my views...I made no statements regarding the relative worth of the Turkish or Greek cultures...What I keep saying is that our culture,the Cypriot culture,is different than the other two cultures,and while there are similarities in certain areas,we can only live an authentic life is we are true to our own culture...

When you have solved all the corruption and injustices of the south then the whole thing might look a little more tempting and we will ask them to join us in a united Cyprus.


I need you and all the other TCs to help establish a multicultural country over all Cyprus,Zan...With out 20% minority,and with the help of those well meaning GC compatriots we can establish a republic which will be the example of tolerance,understanding,and compasssion to the rest of the world...

In the mean time be sure to go parading around on your high horse because we uncivilised Turks like to see a fool on a horse. Any room up there for TPap....


So that is how you want to define yourself,Zan, "an uncivilised Turk"...
Don't complain then,when people treat you as one... :roll:
ps. There is no room on my high horse for Tpapa...Just room for me and my dear friend miltiades...plus a few others I can think of in this forum... :wink:
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