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SOLUTION PLAN – A simple arithmetic equation

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Do you agree with the formula?

Poll ended at Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:54 am

YES
1
20%
NO
4
80%
 
Total votes : 5

Postby turkcyp » Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:50 am

-mikkie2- wrote:If Talat chooses Denktas again then it will send the wrong signals to the GC's. I can't speak for TC's in who they choose but at the end of the day, if you have two groups with fundamentally opposing views as to the nature of the solution then you cannot hope to have an effective negotiating team.

But anyway, does this really matter when it is Turkey that pulls the strings?


So electing Denktas Jr. is sending bas signals to GCs, huh!

I guess you can understand what kind of signals GCs sent us last election when they have chosen an experienced EOKA man to president. I remember that day. At least S. Denktas is not going around and claiming that there was not any GCs killed in Cyprus, like T.Pap claimed to that Kuwaiti newspaper for TCs.

Actually in terms of negotiating and in terms of what kind of solution they want I do not think S. Denktas and Talat are that far off from each other. I should say that Talat’s views are more similar with the Denktas Jr. then Akinci.

Akinci is considered by many as a very weak negotiator because of his views. People believe that the price he is ready to pay for solution is very high. Akinci did loose for one reason only. His eagerness to find a solution.

Let me get this rights because I know the above paragraph my come wrong to many GCs. Majority of TCs would like to see a solution in the island, but they do not want this to come at any price. And the price Akinci is willing to pay for a solution seems very high compared to Talats.

I admire Akinci though. He is a maverick. He always tell how things should be, but never tells how things can be at the current climate. His solutions and his ideal for the future in unified Cyprus are probably most advanced of all. But his ideals are not viable in the current society. His world of full peace, unconditional solution, shock therapy, is never very well digested in any society. He is always ahead of its time. People usually get to where he points out but usually much later and on a slower paste. That is why he can never be a government. Because he lives in this utopia, where people do not hate each other and have good intentions, whereas the real world is cold and dark out there.

Anyway, this is becoming like a novel.

Take care everybody,
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Postby Saint Jimmy » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:18 am

turkcyp wrote:I guess you can understand what kind of signals GCs sent us last election when they have chosen an experienced EOKA man to president.

Just pointing out that Clerides is an experienced EOKA man, too.
Oh, and two questions: Was he threatening? Do you remember the two days when Clerides got elected?

I am only asking because if you were prejudiced against T-Pap enough to get the chills when you found out he got elected, because he is a former EOKA fighter, but not equally prejudiced against Clerides, well, maybe you should reconsider your point of view; your reasoning for being intimidated by T-Pap (please note that I don't know whether that is, in fact, why you feel that way; it just seems like a possibility, from what you wrote).
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Postby brother » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:10 pm

I would guess it is the same, and for you guys too while r.denktas is in power.
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Postby turkcyp » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:16 pm

Saint Jimmy wrote:Just pointing out that Clerides is an experienced EOKA man, too.
Oh, and two questions: Was he threatening? Do you remember the two days when Clerides got elected?

I am only asking because if you were prejudiced against T-Pap enough to get the chills when you found out he got elected, because he is a former EOKA fighter, but not equally prejudiced against Clerides, well, maybe you should reconsider your point of view; your reasoning for being intimidated by T-Pap (please note that I don't know whether that is, in fact, why you feel that way; it just seems like a possibility, from what you wrote).


I remember two years ago when he was elected. I was sitting in my uncle's office and talking about politics (Cypriots huh! It's all about politics!!! :) ), and the only thing we were talking about was his election. And everybody was going over and over about his character and his involvement with EOKA. (which even today a big majority of TCs consider as a terrorist organization instead of like GC's "liberator". I guess what they say is true "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter")

And I have said the same thing, "What is the difference? Clerides was an EOKA member too" And after 2 hours of discussion the consensus we come to is that "There is a different between one EOKA member and another". Some terrorists are deemed less harmfull and can be lived with. But somes can't. I mean this is a guys that 7 months ago he gave a speech to a Kuwaiti paper claiming that "There was not one innocent TC blood shed in Cyprus history." He is seen as the arctihtect of the Acritas plan.

And basically what the conclusion was that there will not be a solution in Cyprus unless GCs got rid of him. Although my belief was even much harsher than that. I believe that because the majority of GCs had elected him knowing how much he is not liked among TCs, before we can reach a permanent solution majority of GCs had to change their views as well, the same way majority of TCs had changed their stance on nationalistic TCs.

And we are still waiting,

Take care,
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Postby Saint Jimmy » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:34 pm

turkcyp wrote:I remember two years ago when he was elected. I was sitting in my uncle's office and talking about politics (Cypriots huh! It's all about politics!!! :) ), and the only thing we were talking about was his election. And everybody was going over and over about his character and his involvement with EOKA. (which even today a big majority of TCs consider as a terrorist organization instead of like GC's "liberator". I guess what they say is true "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter")

And I have said the same thing, "What is the difference? Clerides was an EOKA member too" And after 2 hours of discussion the consensus we come to is that "There is a different between one EOKA member and another". Some terrorists are deemed less harmfull and can be lived with. But somes can't. I mean this is a guys that 7 months ago he gave a speech to a Kuwaiti paper claiming that "There was not one innocent TC blood shed in Cyprus history." He is seen as the arctihtect of the Acritas plan.

OK, crystal clear, thanks!
turkcyp wrote:And basically what the conclusion was that there will not be a solution in Cyprus unless GCs got rid of him. Although my belief was even much harsher than that. I believe that because the majority of GCs had elected him knowing how much he is not liked among TCs, before we can reach a permanent solution majority of GCs had to change their views as well, the same way majority of TCs had changed their stance on nationalistic TCs.

Aaaaah, this is not as simple as you make it out to be...
I, personally, was not aware how much he is not liked among TCs, and that issue was never discussed in the election period, as far as I know. The debate was on how he had turned down every single solution plan to date.
But I think people actually believed him, that he would, in fact, solve it this time, only he wouldn't be as soft as Clerides in the negotiations, and so we'd gain something extra... you know, you're a Cypriot, too :wink:
So, they voted for him to 'solve it better', if you know what I mean...
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Postby turkcyp » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:38 pm

By the way it turns out that CTP only got 24 MPs and UBP got 19 MPs. This makes the only viable option of coalition is between Talat and S. Denktas.

And the recent speechs given by Talat also shows that he is considering running for president. I wished he did not. I think they should either got rid of the office of president or chaneg thw whoel system to presidential system.

Anywho, anyhow, anyway,

Today is another day...:)
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Postby pantelis » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:46 pm

turkcyp said:

Code: Select all
By the way it turns out that CTP only got 24 MPs and UBP got 19 MPs.


How so, myfriend? Has something changed?


From Zaman:

According to these results, the CTP has 25 seats in the Republic's parliament, the UBP has 18, the DP has six, and the BDH has one. Since none of the parties managed to win 26 seats, a coalition government will administer the TRNC. It is expected that the partnership between Talat and Denktas Jr. will continue. Prime Minister Talat said that talks on a coalition will begin today.


Why with Serdar and not Ankinci? Is it because Turkey said so?
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Postby turkcyp » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:04 pm

pantelis wrote:How so, myfriend? Has something changed?


In north we have a election system, in which you can not vote for parties but also can cast mixed votes for individauls from different parties. So for example you do not like all the MP candidates for your region from one party you can cast a mixed vote and choose different MPs from different parties.

When all these mixed votes are counted, then the final result may be different than the initial party mixed, because a person who is not elected from a part list might have gotten enogh individual votes to pass some other MP.

From Zaman:

According to these results, the CTP has 25 seats in the Republic's parliament, the UBP has 18, the DP has six, and the BDH has one. Since none of the parties managed to win 26 seats, a coalition government will administer the TRNC. It is expected that the partnership between Talat and Denktas Jr. will continue. Prime Minister Talat said that talks on a coalition will begin today.


Why with Serdar and not Ankinci? Is it because Turkey said so?


First of all with current structure, 24+1 is not enought for a goverment. You have to have at least 26.

Even if CTP had got 25 as first predicted, then I do not think that Talat would go for Akinci, because most probably Talat will run for the president in two months, and if he is elected then he should quit parliamnet as an MP, which means 26-1=25 again becomes not enough to govern and there would be another need for another election.

So in any case, even if Talat is not planing to run for president, it would not have made sense for him to choose 25+1=26 (a very flimsy coalition) to 25+6=31 (a stronger coalition) especially after both of the goverment parties (CTP and DP) are the only two parties to increase their votes (unlike BDH and UBP) as a sign for TC approval of the goverment. (And especially after seeing what happened to last flimsy coalition with DP last year. Last year they were 26 total with DP but become minority goverment in one year with some departures from both parties.)

Anyway it is always fantastically FUNNY to hear GC theories about Turkey being behind everything. If you can you would even claim that Turkey itself casted the votes yesterday.

Anyway you have a good day,
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Postby pantelis » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:27 pm

I see no real step towards a solution with another weak front, on the TC side.
Talat will fail once again! No change. :(
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Postby pantelis » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:51 pm

turkcyp,

Does Eroglu mainly represent the settler-voters?

If not, who?
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