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[Alexandros Lordos]

I find that the fundamental aspect is the status of settlers rather than TC's. If more settlers are repatriated then fewer properties will be in contention. Considering that the settlers, illegal workers, whatever you wish to call them, outnumber the TC's. It therfore stands to reason that if more settlers are repatriated then more property will be freed up.

Mikkie,

the way that the Annan Plan gave property rights to settlers was that, firstly, there was an "escape clause" so that a current occupant who lived in the house in question for at least ten years might keep it by order of the Property Board, and secondly, by putting huge swathes of land in the north, in the hands of the property board and then blocking GCs from buying them, so that settlers would form the only effective market.

In my proposal I tried to cancel both these effects. Firstly, by getting rid of the "escape clause", and secondly, by ensuring that the Property Board has minimal properties available to sell. Why minimal? Because all property would be returned to original owners, except that which was being used by refugees and that which has been built on. In both cases, the property would remain with current occupants, very few of which would be settlers, and would not be available for sale through the Property Board.

My main concern about the GC mindset is the following:

- Are GCs unwilling to compromise one bit on the issue of property? If we want 100% restitution of all property, however much that disrupts the TCs, if we go as far as to insist that we should get a piece of land back on which a block of apartments has been built, "because it is ours", and we can not accept "mere compensation" under any circumstances, then where is the spirit of "mutual sacrifices that will lead to a solution"?

[pantelis]

Alexandre,
I agree with every sigle word you have written above. I have also expressed the same views like yours, in the past. (Uniting Cyprus, does not mean "uniting the land and the government"; it means "uniting the people under common roof and shared interests".
The question is:
Do we have the majority (50%+)of the GCs & TCs behind us? If we do, how do we expose this fact?
If we don't, do we try to change their opinions, or do we accept their desire for partition as a fact and go our separate ways, by settling with best achievable settlement and hoping that in a future day, the people would be ready to unite?

[Viewpoint]

As I am a new member, I will start by saying hello to everyone on the forum, which I have been following for a number of months now. Your comments are very amusing, intense, informative and rude at times.

I specifically joined to congratulate Alexandros on his studies/polls. What patience and understanding you have. All your responses to questions/arguements are with the same level headed, unbiased approach, as displayed in this particular thread. If only we had more Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots like yourself, open minded and methodical, we could resolve the Cyprus issue on our own and without outside intervention.

Well done and keep up the good work.

[-mikkie2-]

Alexandre,

I am in agreement with you as a matter of fact. My main issue is the settlers rather than TC's. It is inevitable that there will have to be some compromise regarding certain issues such as the ones you have raised. This is where a property board will have to make decisions and be able to balance the needs of a refugee with the current occupant.

The problem I forsee is that land and property that has been handed down over generations will inevitably mean that many of the owners have a longstanding attachment to this and as such you are bound to come across difficulties.

I think what needs to be done in order to come to something agreeable on property is for an accurate cesnus to be made of property and who owns what and what state the property or land is in etc. To come to a solution on property blindly by making assumptios may not lead to an amicable arrangement. Unfortunately since the Turks do not want to do this for their obvious negotiating reasons then we can only guess at what needs to be done.

[Alexandros Lordos]

I think what needs to be done in order to come to something agreeable on property is for an accurate cesnus to be made of property and who owns what and what state the property or land is in etc. To come to a solution on property blindly by making assumptios may not lead to an amicable arrangement. Unfortunately since the Turks do not want to do this for their obvious negotiating reasons then we can only guess at what needs to be done.

Yes, a census of persons and properties was suggested at the Wilton Park conference ... it would certainly help a great deal, so that we all know exactly what we are getting into.

[Alexandros Lordos]

As I am a new member, I will start by saying hello to everyone on the forum, which I have been following for a number of months now.

Dear friend,

welcome to the forum (well, actually it seems you have been here for quite a few months already ), and thank you for your kind words.

I think forums like this are places where important work gets done, in terms of developing understanding and respect for different viewpoints on the Cyprus issue.

[insan]

If we are afraid of hurting someones feelings then the chances are we will not do anything! It means that we will stand still rather than progress.

mikkie; irritating arrogance, plain arrogance, frequent arrogance, provoking arrogance, retaliatory arrogance between two communities etc. are disparate from forthrightness.

Ps: Sorry for intfereing your discussion with this issue.

[Saint Jimmy]

Viewpoint, welcome to the forum. I just wanted to say that I agree with your first post

Alex, I voted for Property, but I think I made a mistake. I thought the question was about which aspect of the A-Plan needs the most work in order to become acceptable.
Having read your proposal, I would agree with Insan that the area that needs more work is Education. The provisions you describe seem quite effective on paper, but a number of issues would probably arise in practice, in my opinion. How many schools will be integrated and in what areas? Who will attend these schools? Is there a provision for integrated schooling to be obligatory? Will there be enough GC students in the 'Northern' state (and vice versa) to sustain the viability of operating a 'cross-school'? Will such students (GCs in north and TCs in south) have to travel 50 kilometers every day to go to school, because they live in a far-off village, and too few such schools can be sustained?

[insan]

Can somebody write a brief summary about Cyprus history that would be acceptable for all concerned parties as the official Cyprus history? If we can't write this jointly acceptable Cyprus history, I'm afraid we would have to skip the last 450 years of Cyprus history, until eternity.

[magikthrill]

So from what I understand after a certain amount of years anyone can buy any property they want, anyone can work wherever they want but the only thing that will be limited is the residency status of GCs in the TC state and TCs in the GC state?

Is this correct?


Also, in terms of education I think it would be brilliant if there could be schools for both communities. ALso, I really think that Turkish should be offered as a second language (maybe optional) in all GC schools and maybe Greek in all TC schools.

When I was disucssin with my mother (a refugee) the other day about learning a foreign language she told me she would like to learn Italian and then I tell her ( sarcastically to annoy her) "Why don't you learn Turkish so you can understand what your passport says" And much to my surprise instead of her getting angry she told me " I wish I did know Turkish but they were all too stubborn to teach us" Just though I'd share that cuase I found int interesting.