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British Foreign Affairs Committee Report on Cyprus

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby -mikkie2- » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:12 am

The above is not very flattering for us but it is very hard to disagree with this. It is another indication of the isolation Papadopoulos has thrown the RoC in. He is not liked, whether we like it or not, and this scares me because the people that matter in this world have no respect for Papadopoulos. This is not, as mikkie seems to think, due to his recent antics. The man has a long history in politics, that goes back to the late 50's. He is an exposed politician and it is very easy to make a judgement on him.


Bananiot

The trouble is the Cypriot people voted for him. You should be pointing fingers at those people that do not respect the democratic rights of people to vote whome they choose. You talk about Papadopoulos not being liked. Well fine. Look at Talat, the 'great' statesman that he is who never passes an opportunity to mock Papadopoulos. He wants to do business with the man. How can he do that when he constantly denegrates him? Does he think that with that kind of talk he is going to encourage a popular revolution in the streets in the south to overthrow him? If anything he is doing the opposite.

The trouble is, if he does actually solve the problem, he will be treated as a hero. This man needs to be given a chance. I believe that chance will come soon and he will not spurn it. He needs all the support he can get.
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Postby Agios Amvrosios » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:30 am

Maybe T-Pap is copping a cold shoulder from a few countries in the EU. Many GC's see him as as a hero, because he stood his ground and that is something many GC Leaders have not really done in ages.
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Postby turkcyp » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:00 am

Alexandros Lordos wrote:

Turkcyp,

the questionnaire for the Greek Cypriots is published along with the report "Can the Cyprus Problem be Solved". The questionnaire for the Turkish Cypriots can be found in this forum, on page one of the thread "Good News: Survey of Turkish Cypriots now Complete".

As to actual responses, do you mean the data file itself? I could e-mail that to you, but it is in SPSS format and I don't know if you have the software for your computer to be able to read it.

If you wish, you can ask me in detail which particular questions you would like to have the detailed responses of, and I will do the statistical calculation and publish the relevant data in this forum.

For this purpose, I suggest we use the other thread I mentioned above.


Thanks Alex,

My e-mail is turkcyp@hotmail.com.

Please e-mail me the results and I can find out the rest of the information from this web site. Do not worry aboutr the file type. I can view any type of statistical data including SPSS.

And also do you have Turksih translation of the questinaire that is actually asked to TCs. Because I do not trust most of the Turks for making proper translations.

Thanks very much in advance,

Take care
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Postby pantelis » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:04 am

My first reaction?
I like it!

The best assurances against future action by Turkey would be provided, not by a further treaty, but by a demilitarised Cyprus, a continuing rapprochement with Greece and progress towards EU membership, and the presence on the ground of a properly constituted multinational force, providing real security guarantees with the backing of a United Nations Chapter VII Resolution.



In other words.....

"We are back. Cyprus will become renewed British Colony in disguise (behind the EU veil), except this time, we will take your guns away, so you don't start again, killing each other.”


However, if Turkey is serious about joining the EU, she will have to be more reasonable on this point. Turkish Cypriots are, we believe, ambivalent about the Turkish army. Although for understandable reasons they are reluctant to place their views on the record, we heard from several Turkish Cypriot sources when we visited the island that the presence of Turkish troops is not seen as an unalloyed blessing. We believe that many Turkish Cypriots would prefer to see an end to Turkey’s military presence, if appropriate security guarantees could be provided.


I see a problem here. Turkey is changing very rapidly, towards Islam and away from the EU. The Generals would choose to support the Islamists, thus retaining some of their power. With the EU, they know they would be reduced to public servants, like the rest of the NATO forces.


One of our witnesses raised the question of whether the bases as a whole should be returned to Cypriot sovereignty even before an overall settlement. Christopher Brewin acknowledged the value of the bases to the United Kingdom, but suggested that the sovereign status of the areas was an anachronism. He called for “leasehold now”. Dr Claire Palley also suggested that the efficient functioning of the SBAs could suffer “If Cyprus-UK relations become embitteredas they well may”. Our Parliamentary colleague, Andrew Dismore MP, told us that the status of the bases was becoming an issue on the island. However, when we visited, we encountered no significant pressure from Cypriots to alter the present arrangements, and it appears that the only political party in the South openly calling for such a step is the small Green Party. We were also told that changes in status can be made only with the agreement of Greece and Turkey, which we believe is unlikely to be forthcoming in isolation from progress on the broader issues. We do not, therefore, agree with those who seek an immediate change in the status of the SBAs, or indeed any change outside the context of an overall settlement.
182. We conclude that the Government’s decision to offer to transfer sovereignty over almost half of the United Kingdom’s sovereign base areas on Cyprus to the island’s two communities as part of an overall settlement was a constructive and useful gesture, with no negative consequences for the United Kingdom’s interests. We recommend that the Government be prepared to renew the offer with the same conditions as before in the event that progress towards a settlement is resumed.


The Britts are testing the waters here............(friends?)
The Turks standard arguement : "If the British need to have Bases, being so far from the British Isles, how about us?"


209. Although Turkish Cypriots receive aid from the United States, the United Kingdom and the EU, among others, the self-styled ‘Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus’ has effectively been bankrolled by Turkey, which has supported the northern Cyprus economy to the tune of $3.7 billion over the past 30 years.


"Bankrolling" is an art for the few.......


• the referendums would take place in time for the result to be announced and (in the event that a favourable result was achieved) the plan to take effect before 3 October 2005.




What is with this October 3rd date again? Should there be a connection of Turkey's date with Cyprus?


It is time we move forward, that's for sure!
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Postby cannedmoose » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:30 am

pantelis wrote:I see a problem here. Turkey is changing very rapidly, towards Islam and away from the EU. The Generals would choose to support the Islamists, thus retaining some of their power. With the EU, they know they would be reduced to public servants, like the rest of the NATO forces.


Pantelis, I'm a little confused by this section of your post. Whilst I agree that Turkey is entering a period of rapid change, I don't see how you can justify your claim that Turkey is becoming islamicised and moving away from the EU. It is true that some of the pretty harsh restrictions on religious practice are being (or are in the process of being) relaxed, but if anything the spur for this is a need to do so in order to satisfy the EU on human rights matters. All the evidence also indicates Turkey moving a great deal closer to the EU, certainly not away from it.

It is the case that some members of the Turkish establishment, particularly in the Ministries of Defence and Foreign Affairs are suspicious of Erdogan's intent and concerned about their own positions being undermined as you stated Pantelis, but in general the direction of movement in Turkey is pro-Europe. There is a growing realisation that things are going to change and those in what has traditionally been known as the 'deep state' need to change also, if only to retain some of their influence in the future.

Therefore, if you have any evidence to support your statement, I'm all ears.
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Postby Bananiot » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:02 pm

I do not agree that Talat is mocking Papadopoulos (Chirac did, in Brussels last December .... Papa qui?). Talat is merely asking to meet him and start a dialogue for the solution of our problem. Talat even suggested he is ready to discuss changes to the plan. What is wrong with this?

By the way, Hitler was also elected by a popular vote. By this I am not suggesting that Papadopoulos is the same as Hitler. He couldn't be the same if he tried. Mind you, he could have been on equal par, had the Akritas plan been implemented.
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Postby brother » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:05 pm

Now that was a good example bananiot.
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Postby cannedmoose » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:07 pm

Bananiot, do you have a source for the "Papa qui?" comment by Chirac? I almost fell off my chair laughing when I read that just now :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby pantelis » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:10 pm

cannedmoose said

Therefore, if you have any evidence to support your statement, I'm all ears.


http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... ewsid=6586


I had a feeling, that Erdogan had his own secret game and now I see that others have noticed it also. I don't think he is to be trusted, when it comes to a solution in Cyprus.
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Postby pantelis » Wed Feb 23, 2005 3:25 pm

EU and NATO sources say while Turkey had displayed a very constructive and realist attitude during discussions on the Annan plan, it has once again begun to harden its stance.



http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/arti ... ewsid=6645
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