Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

I would like to see the Old politicians of both sides being replaced by New and younger ones who are more willing to see things in a different perspective and are more likely to introduce and bring CHANGE !

Hi michalis, is it all you can contribute to this thread, as a representative of younger generation of Cypriots?

[cannedmoose]

Although I unconditionally agree with the issue of teahing religion in schools, do you think it will be accepted by mainstream GC society? I know if this were to happen in Greece it would be defended as religion is part of Greek culture...

Hi Thrill,

I know that this would be a massively difficult thing for mainstream society to consider, given the interwoven nature of the Orthodox faith with Cypriot culture (not to mention the sway that priests still tend to have over many people). However, although religion is not the problem per se, it does play a role. I'm reading a book by Rebecca Bryant that studies the origins of Cypriot nationalism and its thesis is that before the British period, Cypriots did not largely identify themselves as Greeks or Turks, but as Christian Cypriots or Muslim Cypriots. With the modernism that came with extra rights of expression under the British, and the accompanying growth of nationalism in both Greece and Turkey, the religious leanings of people became transposed onto an attachment to a 'mother country', thus Christian Cypriots became Greeks and Muslim Cypriots became Turks. This is a short and quite bad summary of what Bryant writes, but her description of the process is quite compelling.

The origins of nationalism aside, notwithstanding its merits/demerits, I remember the appeals from the Priests to reject the AP and this must have played some part in the decision-making process of some people.

Furthermore, I discussed this with my wife today to see what she thought about this, during her schooling she received instruction in Greek Orthodoxy and during the last two years did learn about many other religions WITH THE NOTABLE EXCEPTION OF ISLAM. When she questioned her RE teacher (who also happened to be the local priest) as to why they could not learn about Islam, he dismissed her question, saying that there was no need to learn about Islam as it wasn't relevant to Cypriots.

I personally find it quite remarkable that Hinduism or Buddhism can be taught as relevant topics, yet Islam, the religion on Cyprus' doorstep, a religion with one of its holiest sites, Tekke, in Cyprus should not be taught. I also wonder if this was this a general experience? If the GCs on here can let me know I'd appreciate it.

[cannedmoose]

Metecyp wrote:
For example, I don't know why Varosha cannot be given back to GCs in return of Famagusta port opening for trade under the control of EU. We can also ask a good percentage of reconstruction in Varosha to be implemented by TC workers. This will give Varosha back to GCs, give TCs a legal port while not upsetting GCs (since the port will be under the control of EU) and create jobs for TC workers.

This would be a reasonable compromise position. However, an alternative would be to open Varosha to joint development. Since most of the buildings will have to be pulled down, legally speaking the previous owner would be required to pay for this. In this case, the previous owners could be compensated for the land upon which the buildings stand, with tenders put out for (sympathetic) development by GC/TC consortia. When I say sympathetic I don't mean high-rise, I mean high-class, modern developments. As a result, it would encourage joint investment in the area.

Metecyp wrote:
Secondly, instead of talking about making Ercan airport legal, why don't we open the old airport in Nicosia, again under the control of EU/UN? If the airport is under the control of the EU, nobody can complain. TCs cannot complain that there're being forced into the RoC, GCs cannot complain that it's illegal.

Having not seen it at first hand, I'm not sure of the viability of reopening Nicosia International. I've seen it on a Christopher Hitchens documentary from the late 1980s and it looked out of date even then. It would require a massive amount of investment to bring it up to date for use by modern aircraft, with a considerable lag time in doing so. From all accounts, Ercan is at least able to cope with the demands of modern air transport, is in a better location for landing aircraft and easily accessible by both sides.

Metecyp wrote:
Third, create a bicommunal sports federation (composed of the RoC soccer, basketball, etc. federations and TC soccer, basketball, etc. federations). Then, this federation sets up bicommunal soccer, basketball etc. leagues. This will improve the relations between TCs and GCs and TCs can finally start participating in international events.

Another good idea. Although having been to an Omonia/AEL match, and witnessed a certain level of violence, I'm not sure football is the greatest healer!

And the list goes on....As you can see my friends, there're many things that can be done before a comprehensive solution that will change ordinary people's lives. Unfortunately, I don't think that any of these are possible with current politicians. All they like to talk about is the legality of the RoC, the illegality of the TRNC and the EHRC and so on. I believe that these can be possible if dedicated citizens like us get organized and make it happen.

I agree with you Metecyp, there is so much that could be done quickly with the right political will behind it. The politicians are the real problem these days. They are largely hung up on legality, technical problems and towing the party line. However, if they see a lead from the people on this, attitudes will have to change. There's only one thing that mobilises politicians - the threat of losing their position.

[michalis5354]

Hi michalis, is it all you can contribute to this thread, as a representative of younger generation of Cypriots?

Of course not! I agree with all the issues raised so far but none of them can be adopted If there is no initiative for implementation!

[cannedmoose]

And also thanks to you, cannedmosse for bringing everyone's views together by improving them into a better form.

No problem Insan, I'm finding this discussion really interesting and was bored reading for my Ph.D. so thought I'd spend some time summarising

Although you suggested two names, as an example to be removed from the street names; I don't think Ataturk can be equated with Grivas just like Ioannis Capodistrias cannot be equated with Grivas by any means. In conclusion, even seeing Ataturk's name being suggested to be removed from the streets in the North, disturbed me so much. I know that there's a law, passed recently in GC parliament that describes Ataturk as the saughterer of Pontian Greeks.

No offence intended Insan. To be honest it was a rather clumsy point, but Ataturk was the first name that came into my head and I know many streets are named after him. I know Ataturk was not an entirely pleasant character but I recognise his achievements and the positive impact that his reforms had on Turkey.

My suggestion was simply to 'Cypriotise' the street-naming process, to remove the 'motherland' influence from it. I'm sure at this point someone will point out that Grivas was Cypriot, but the intention should be to avoid naming that inflames passions. So that might mean a period with boring, neutral names (the suggestion of 'Daisy St.' amused me no end), but there is no reason why common Cypriot heroes will not emerge in the future, after whom new streets can be named.

Here's a link to a new thread on this 'street names' topic.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1316

[cannedmoose]

Hi michalis, is it all you can contribute to this thread, as a representative of younger generation of Cypriots?

Of course not! I agree with all the issues raised so far but none of them can be adopted If there is no initiative for implementation!

I actually agree with Michalis on this one. It's an unrealistic hope given that Cyprus tends to be gerontocratic (governed by old people), but, as I said in a previous post, the politicians will have to follow the people's lead. If popular opinion dictates, no politician will run the risk of his cozy position being taken away at the next election. People change and politicians have to change with them or they become part of history. Look at the role that popular power played in eastern Europe at the end of the 1990s. The initiative must come from civil society.

Anyway, enough posts from me, I'm filling up this page!!

[-mikkie2-]

The trouble with Nicosia airport is that today it woud be deemed unsafe because of the proximity of the Pendadactilos mountains. Aircraft today are much larger than they used to be so if there is a problem on take off then there needs to be plenty of room for aircraft to turn around. I would say Tymbou kind of has the same problems. I have seen aircraft take off from there and they have to bank away very quickly in order to avoid the mountains.

The other problem is that Nicosia has expanded and much of the area around the airport has been developed and there is a large number of residential housing which is just too close to it. Tymbou is also a problem because it will limit expansion and the land there could be put to much better use for other things.

In my opinion, the natural choice for developing a future airport is to expand Larnaca as it is next to the sea and it avoids residential and developed areas. Land can also be reclaimed from the sea if needed in order to expand the airport. I guess all this is for the future. Even after a solution, it will probably take a good few years before things settle down and decisions can be made as to what best to do regarding these issues.

[metecyp]

In my opinion, the natural choice for developing a future airport is to expand Larnaca as it is next to the sea and it avoids residential and developed areas

Yes, it might be natural but do you think it's a neutral choice? If you want an airport that will serve both of the communities, then it has to be in the middle of the island. So we either use the old Nicosia airport, or we open the Ercan airport for the use of TCs and GCs under the control of EU. The point here is to have an international airport where both TCs and GCs can use without getting into the legality/illegality issue and if this aiport is under the control of EU, we avoid the political issue of who owns/operates the airport, the RoC of the TRNC and all that.

[magikthrill]

So does the airport discussion refer to events before or after a solution is achieved?

[MicAtCyp]

Erol,
The Cyprus problem and the problem of properties concerns the living, and the ones who will live after them, not the dead.The dead don't need any properties...

The pain from loss of a loved one is of infinite dimensions I agree. Nothing can bring a dead beloved person back, and I guess there is no "solution" to this problem at this stage of our existence.One can deal with the material loses of the decendants of this person though.

Viewpoint,
It seems you did not get the matter of the ports right. It was an interim proposal in your favour to build confidence until the Cyprus problem is solved. I personally do not agree with that.
But anyway it offered you A) the legality you always wanted on exchange of B) common use under EU supervision. You cannot ask for C) common use of the already legal ports because that will only come on exchange of D) a solution.
For your information your leadership already turned the offer down anyway...