Cyprus-Forum.com

[magikthrill]

Insan,

I said put the past aside. Turkey and the Turkish army are there now in the present pointing their guns and tanks towards the south. thats why its hard for GCs to put that aside.

So, What are heavily armed 15.000 National Guard+ 6000 Eldik+ 20.000 reserves doing in the south from 1963 up until now, the present time? That's why it's hard for TCs to immediately put that aside. You demand all Turkish troops to get out of Cyprus but you never offered let's reduce the military presence on both sides, equally. Why?

I agree that foreign troops from the South should be removed too. And on a sidenote, isnt there at Turkish Cypriot army too or is it blended in together with Turkey's army?

[MicAtCyp]

I agree with MicAtCyp's description of the memorial in Famagusta/Gazimagusa * as lacking in a certain degree of taste, but then again that's also my perception of the National Struggle Memorial in Lefkosia (see picture below), and that's not because I'm a Brit, it just lacks a certain dignity and poise... anyways, that's a personal perception.

* First of all you juuust forgot the real name of the town which is Ammohostos(=burried in sand).Coincidence??

Do you honestly consider our statue of liberty as lacking taste dignity and poise?Why, because it resembles the statue of Liberty at New York, or do you perhaps consider that one, lacking the same elements too? Or perhaps you just distaste the figure of ancient Greek goddess of "Eleftheria"=liberty?

Do you mind explaining us what it shows and why you are absolutely sure it did not affect you as a British? Does it for example show the day we were liberated from "her Majesty"? Does perhaps inside the cell have the rope with which her majesty liked to hung our underaged students?
At least I was honest enough to say one of the reasons I did not like the monument at Famagusta was because it is a monument of war against us....

Jesus, I guess the only way to prove you wrong is to invide one thousand art critics to tell you.

And can you really compare our statue of Liberty with this monstrosity on the roundabout of Famagusta?



Insan is that on top the head of your "Peace in the Country, peace in the World" God? Wonder what kind of peace he was referring to the peace of the cementary perhaps?

[-mikkie2-]

It's easy to say in order for us to achieve a solution is to put the past aside. Have GCs put the past aside concerning turkey and Turkish army? No. So, while it is obvious GCs too, couldn't put the past aside; is asking TCs to put the past aside, fair?

What are you talking about re Insan?

Turkey and the Turkish Army are here and now! This is not past. It is present reality. Turkey rules the roost in the north AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. So how can we move on? It is not the GC's that need to make gestures. We have made plenty of gestures like allowing you free health care, getting jobs etc. What gesture has Turkey doen for us? ZERO! So in these circumstances, how can we move on? Please enlighten me!

[cannedmoose]

* First of all you juuust forgot the real name of the town which is Ammohostos(=burried in sand).Coincidence??

Do you honestly consider our statue of liberty as lacking taste dignity and poise?Why, because it resembles the statue of Liberty at New York, or do you perhaps consider that one, lacking the same elements too? Or perhaps you just distaste the figure of ancient Greek goddess of "Eleftheria"=liberty?

Do you mind explaining us what it shows and why you are absolutely sure it did not affect you as a British? Does it for example show the day we were liberated from "her Majesty"? Does perhaps inside the cell have the rope with which her majesty liked to hung our underaged students?
At least I was honest enough to say one of the reasons I did not like the monument at Famagusta was because it is a monument of war against us....

Jesus, I guess the only way to prove you wrong is to invide one thousand art critics to tell you.

And can you really compare our statue of Liberty with this monstrosity on the roundabout of Famagusta?

Ok MicAtCyp, let me firstly confront your constant allegations that I am some sort of British imperialist/TC apologist because it's really starting to tire and confuse me, I don't know why you keep bringing it to such a personal level. Ok, I do not like the memorial at Ammoxostos/Famagusta/Gazimagusa on an aesthetic level either. As for its merits as a war memorial against GC's, both sides have some memorials that are offensive to each other, so let's not claim a monopoly on this.

As for the statue of liberty, I said that I disliked that aesthetically too, I said absolutely nothing about it being against the British and I feel absolutely no post-imperial distaste because of that. I don't hanker back to the days of British colonialism and in fact I am one of the people who supports returning the SBAs to the sovereignty of Cyprus, so my conscience is clear on that score.

Thus, I find your accusations quite ungracious, my point was not to denigrate the purpose or meaning of a statue whatsoever. However, for your own anti-British purposes you seem to want to ascribe that meaning to my words.

[metecyp]

It is not the GC's that need to make gestures. We have made plenty of gestures like allowing you free health care, getting jobs etc.

Oh please, don't call health care, jobs, IDs as gestures. These are the minimum Papadopoulos could do in order to keep claiming that the RoC represents TCs. Let's say, for example, TCs weren't allowed to get ID cards and work in the south. How could Papadopoulos keep claiming that the RoC represents TCs? He couldn't...so don't tell me that these are gestures, these are small prices paid for something big in return (deceive the world that the RoC represents TCs)

[MicAtCyp]

Keep try to erase your guilt. You can simply put forward your opinions about him. There's no need for labeling us brain - washed about him.

Guilt? ? ? What are you talking about? Isn’t it a fact that my message was crystal clear and you failed to read it carefully? Should I feel guilty for your fault? !

Yeah right you are not brainwashed about Ataturk.
Tell me Insan is it a fact or is it not, that every single book you yourself was given at school (from grade one to the very last grade) had a huge picture of Ataturk on it's very first page?
Isn't it a fact that each and everyone of those books had the story of his life in, and that the first thing he did was to "secure the country from it's enemies"?
Isn’t it a fact that each and every book they gave you, had some questions somewhere in the middle to make sure you understood your lesson about Ataturk?

Isn't it a fact that you reacted nerdily to just hints that Ataturk besides being a great reformer was also a butcher? If that is not an indication of a brainwashed person about him, then what is it?

[insan]

It's easy to say in order for us to achieve a solution is to put the past aside. Have GCs put the past aside concerning turkey and Turkish army? No. So, while it is obvious GCs too, couldn't put the past aside; is asking TCs to put the past aside, fair?

What are you talking about re Insan?

Turkey and the Turkish Army are here and now! This is not past. It is present reality. Turkey rules the roost in the north AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME. So how can we move on? It is not the GC's that need to make gestures. We have made plenty of gestures like allowing you free health care, getting jobs etc. What gesture has Turkey doen for us? ZERO! So in these circumstances, how can we move on? Please enlighten me!

I can't understand how you still pretending that you don't understand what I mean.

If you want a gradual demilitarization of cyprus, you should also prepare yourself to reduce the military power in South. We all well know that there are 15.000 National Guard soldiers + 6.000 Greek Soldiers and 20.000+ GC reserves in the South now. They are there and this is also a part of present reality.

"RoC" which claims that represents whole Cyprus unwillingly made some "gestures" in order to keep claim that "RoC" still represents TCs as well. TCs who mostly work in construction industry get less than the half of the wage GCs get. I think the difference and discrimination part of TC wages well cover much more than their health care in South.

Furthermore, the RoC that TCs don't recognize is the present "RoC" and its administration not the one established jointly in 1960. Thus, they have the right to renew and get new id cards of original RoC. They weren't issued the id cards and passports for free. They paid for it just like all other Cypriots.


Turkey does not need to rule the roost in North because TC leadership and Turkey have a common strategy concerning the solution of Cyprus problem. Moreover vast majority of TCs approve this common startegy.


Until you sincerely acknowledge TCs as "politically equal" state partner of GC community, Turkey won't be able to make you gestures. However may offer an interim solution such as gradually returning land to GC administration, reciprocally reducing the military power stationed in Cyprus etc...

[-mikkie2-]

How many Greek soldiers Insan?

There is at most 2000 Greek soldiers in Cyprus. It was a FACT that under the Annan plan Greece actually had to INCREASE her troop numbers in Cyprus! Isn't it also the case that there are thousands of reservists in the north? And is it not the case that Turkish troops have the latest US weapons at their disposal whilst we have to make do with second hand Russian crap? How can you equate the two?

Turkey does not need to rule the roost in North because TC leadership and Turkey have a common strategy concerning the solution of Cyprus problem. Moreover vast majority of TCs approve this common startegy.

A common strategy that suits the purposes of Turkey is what you really mean. Who runs the police force in the north for example? Is it not the case that all decisions taken in the north need to be approved by the Turkish Army?

So you think that TC's are being paid half the wages of other similar workers in Cyprus. Are you really sure about this? In any case they at least can get work in the south at the expense of the GC's. In the north you have the countless settlers taking all your jobs at much much cheaper rate.

[insan]

How many Greek soldiers Insan?

There is at most 2000 Greek soldiers in Cyprus. It was a FACT that under the Annan plan Greece actually had to INCREASE her troop numbers in Cyprus! Isn't it also the case that there are thousands of reservists in the north? And is it not the case that Turkish troops have the latest US weapons at their disposal whilst we have to make do with second hand Russian crap? How can you equate the two?

According to a reliable NATO source, there are 6000 Greek soldiers in South. The number of TC soldiers and TC reservists is only 1/4 of the South. If you keep insisting not to reduce the number of National Guard soldiers and reservists in South; Turkey has to balance the difference because TCs are outnumbered. Second hand crap or not, the statistical data indicates that South Cyprus is one of the most heavily armed area.

Military: Weapon holdings (per capita) (Top 50 Countries)


Definition: Per capita figures expressed per 1000000 population.


1. Israel 2.61 million per 1 million people
2. Dominica 1.03 million per 1 million people
3. Cyprus 895475.58 per 1 million people
4. Libya 878147.84 per 1 million people
5. Bahrain 869255.04 per 1 million people
6. Korea, North 784902.62 per 1 million people
7. Syria 676976.65 per 1 million people
8. Bulgaria 641820.85 per 1 million people
9. United Arab Emirates 633446.79 per 1 million people
10. Belarus 557635.70 per 1 million people
11. Jordan 523600.96 per 1 million people
12. Greece 514532.68 per 1 million people

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/mil_wea_hol_cap

A common strategy that suits the purposes of Turkey is what you really mean.

A common strategy that they believe is feasible. A common strategy to confront GC and Hellenic propaganda in international arena.

Who runs the police force in the north for example? Is it not the case that all decisions taken in the north need to be approved by the Turkish Army?

Under the cease-fire circumstances Police force is a part of Cyprus Turkish Security forces which works in cooperation with RoT's Peace Forces. Their profession is security, therfore they are the most influential regarding the security of TCs in particular and security of Turkey in Gneral. Under the ongoing circumstances, there's nothing extraordinary with it and majority of TCs have no complaints...

So you think that TC's are being paid half the wages of other similar workers in Cyprus. Are you really sure about this? In any case they at least can get work in the south at the expense of the GC's.

I'm sure about it. There are many articles related with it. I don't think that they get jobs at the expence of the GCs because overwhelming majority of GCs don't like doing the jobs TCs do. Moreover, if the economic embargos being imposed upon TC community has been lifted; those TCs could find better jobs in North.

In the north you have the countless settlers taking all your jobs at much much cheaper rate

It is true there are so many foreign workers(Mostly settlers) and illegal workers just like the situation in South. I'm totally against it. All those cheap labourers which are imported by greedy businessmen should be deported in order to open room for Cypriot people. This is not enough of course. The wages must be increased to much higher level. However this seems a bit hard, as long as GC administration keep preventing the lifting of economic embargos being imposed upon TC community.

[-mikkie2-]

Insan,

You are already making errors in your numbers! You qouted 15000 National Guard. The web site link states 10000! It does not state the number of Greek soldiers in Cyprus so where do you get your 6000 figure from?

The statistics for Cyprus generally include the Turkish troops on the island as well and make it one of the most militarised countries in the world.

Of course evrything our side does is 'Hellenic' propaganda, just as yours is Turkish propaganda!