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Removing the disturbing names from Streets of Cyprus

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby insan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:12 pm

The repeated statements of Papadopoulos that he wants a solution that unites the economy, the people, the institutes and customs point in the direction that he wants deep changes in the plan that will not create a situation where in case of a disagreement the option to move out will be easier than the option of working to restore things.


Did he also refer what's the connection between strong federation and majority rule, withdrawal of all Turkish troops, nullification of treaty of guarantee and alliance, non-restricted bi-zonality, return of all refugees, rapatriation of majority of settlers, restriction on political rights of remaining settlers, full political rights for all refugees who would return or settle in TCCS?


It seems to me that he wants deep changes in the plan to achieve his ever-existed goal: A Turkish Cypriot minority in a GC state.
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Postby antonis » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:28 pm

It seems to me that he wants deep changes in the plan to achieve his ever-existed goal: A Turkish Cypriot minority in a GC state.

I think you are being dogmatic about everything. Not everything is black and white, plus this is not what I was trying to say in my post. Do you accept that at the danger of dissolving the federation because of the fragile interconnection, we should perhaps consider making the ties stronger in the economy, institutes and society? The aim would be that both communities would be in need for each other forever so as to avoid the early partition.
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Postby cannedmoose » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:49 pm

MicAtCyp wrote:Thanks Cannedmoose for your reply with which I generally agree except of this comment:

Whether or not I keep my own counsel is up to me MicAtCyp, that's not your choice.


I beleive when our opinions are expressed publicly we should accept criticism, and sometimes "advice" without translating that as an effort "to interfere in our private life".


Fair point re, I think I misunderstood your original comment, I interpreted it to mean that it was your right to determine the parameters of what was right to say and what was not. However, I agree with your point on criticism entirely.
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Postby insan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:59 pm

I think you are being dogmatic about everything.


Dogmatic? I'm not a hearing and reading-impaired not to understand what Tassos, his crew and their backers clearly assert everyday, infront of public and mass media. Have a visit to all official "RoC" websites to witness what their demands are. If you find anything contradicts with one of the things I've put forward; I'll change my religion and nationality and become a Greek Orthıodox.
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Postby antonis » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:04 pm

Insan,

You are throwing fireworks with no reason and you attach your own tags to statements made. I can also do the same and start interpreting what Talat says the way I want. You have to view everything from a more general viewpoint and not a priori reject whatever is said by the other side. I'm not telling you to endorse it, but at least break free from the mentality that anything that the other side says is to cause mizery in your side.

Did he also refer what's the connection between strong federation and majority rule, withdrawal of all Turkish troops, nullification of treaty of guarantee and alliance, non-restricted bi-zonality, return of all refugees, rapatriation of majority of settlers, restriction on political rights of remaining settlers, full political rights for all refugees who would return or settle in TCCS?

I have never heard anyone and never read any official website that specifically mentions the words "majority rules". That is your own critique and interpretation of what you may have read somewhere. Equality on everything creates a fragile situation and makes some people sceptical whether you really want reunification. Either we have to find a new formula for that, or build trust.

The presence of foreign troops, and the treaties of guarantee and alliance are key issues for the GC side, just as it is for your side. Your insistence that your safety is in danger without them is more than annihilated by the results of the turkish invasion on the GC side. You want a system that will give foreign countries `parental' rights over Cyprus: this causes great mistrust.

The issue of refugees, properties and territorial adjustment are the most complex. The principle that underlies the negotiating position of the GC side is that the most refugees (from both sides) that can return to their houses the best. Even if all refugees return to their houses in the northern part, bizonality is still ensured. The way the issue was solved with the Annan plan was partly acceptable.

As for the settlers, you have to wonder yourselves, as TCs, whether the people that were brought from Turkey in the past few years have been integrated in your society. Cause if you haven't spent time and effort to make these people feel at home, how do you expect a GC to do that? You are also implying that the solution we seek "restricts the political rights of the remaining settlers"? That is absurd, and shows how misinformed you are.

As for the political rights of the GCs that would return to the TCCS, I think that the permanent residents should be given these rights (that was in Annan 3). The non-permanent residents can still exercise their rights at the GCCS.
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Postby insan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:28 pm

You are also implying that the solution we seek "restricts the political rights of the remaining settlers"? That is absurd, and shows how misinformed you are.


Does it show how misinformed us or how you are unaware of what Tassos and his supporters ask. Tassos just recently stated that the settlers shouldn't participate in the last elections took place in North.
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Postby insan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:35 pm

What we are saying is this: We are not moving outside the plan. The plan talks about a Turkish Cypriot state and a Greek Cypriot state, two constituent states. After reading this plan seven or eight times, and after our eyes were opened, we said that Turkish Cypriot senators will come from the Turkish Cypriot state and Greek Cypriot senators from the Greek Cypriot state. There will be Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot judges in the courts, to represent the two sides. The Greek Cypriots do not accept that. They are saying that Greek Cypriots too may represent the Turkish Cypriot state. They say that if Greek Cypriots assume the citizenship of the Turkish Cypriot constituent state, then they, too, may represent the Turkish Cypriot state. They say that ethnic discrimination is unacceptable. This means that we will gradually disappear under a majority rule. That is why the separation of the two communities and of the two peoples -- what the Greek Cypriots call ethnic discrimination -- is elementary. We do not intend to change this under any pretext in the new partnership. We are going to resume the talks at 10 a.m. tomorrow [27 February - 2004].


Did Denktash lied to us he was not effective enough to confront GC crew at the age of 85? Put aside your prejudices about him and please answer me honestly.

http://www.hri.org/news/cyprus/tcpr/200 ... .tcpr.html


And tell me what ethnic discrimination envisaged the provisions of Annan-5, according to your way of interpretation?
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Postby antonis » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:40 pm

Tassos just recently stated that the settlers shouldn't participate in the last elections took place in North.

I dare you to give me the source that says exactly this.

What Tassos may have said was that the voting may not show the true will of the "original" TCs, because a high percentage of the voters come from mainland Turkey.
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Postby antonis » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:47 pm

They say that if Greek Cypriots assume the citizenship of the Turkish Cypriot constituent state, then they, too, may represent the Turkish Cypriot state. They say that ethnic discrimination is unacceptable. This means that we will gradually disappear under a majority rule.


Oh that's where the "majority rules" interpretation comes from... from Denktash.

No further comment.
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Postby insan » Tue Mar 01, 2005 10:48 pm

In an interview on state television Saturday, President Tassos Papadopoulos said he regretted that the election would not reflect the true views of Turkish Cypriots since the majority of voters would be illegal Turkish mainland settlers introduced to the north in the wake of the invasion.


http://www.lufkindailynews.com/news/con ... tions.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Feb19.html

http://www.nynewsday.com/news/nationwor ... -headlines
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