Cyprus-Forum.com

[insan]

I understand why this disturbed you, insan and it disturbed me as well but this is exactly the problem. We perceive Grivas as a terrorist who brought nothing but misery to Cyprus, on the other hand, I'm sure there're people who consider him a freedom-fighter and hero. I love Ataturk and his ideals but there're Turks, let alone Greeks/GCs, who consider Ataturk as God-less drunk who tried to eradicate Islam from Turkey.

As you can see, even in a simple matter like naming the streets, we end up in a political discussion about who is what. What I suggest is to stay away from politics. Let's name our streets to names of flowers, for example. This might sound stupid but nobody will object to live in a Daisy Street, Rose Street, or Tulip street, right? Maybe we can ask street residents to rename their own street. Or maybe we can use Manhattan style street numbering, 1st street, 34th avenue etc.

The point is we can stay away from politics and avoid unnecessary discussions if we want to.

Hi metecyp;

I agree with you that nobody object to live in the streets bear the names of flowers or anything acceptable.


Ataturk is an internationally respected personality, in spite of bigots within Turkey, middle east, South Cyprus and all around the world. To the contrary of this, Grivas is an internationally disrespected, well known monarcho-fascist.



UNESCO Resolutionon the ATATURK CENTENNIAL

"Convinced that personalities who worked for understanding and cooperation between nations and international peace will be examples for future generations,
"Recalling that the hundredth anniversaryof the birth of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, founder of the Turkish Republic, will be celebrated in 1981,

"Knowing that he was an exceptional reformer in all fields relevant to the competence of UNESCO,

"Recognizing in particular that he was the leader of the first struggle given against colonialism and imperialism,


http://www.columbia.edu/cu/tsa/ata/hayati.html#unesco

[boulio]

it dosent really matter what the world thinks of ataturk insan,it matters what the cypriots feel about him,if t/c are bothered by grivas and makarios,they should be removed,if g/c are bothered with names of streets such as ataturk,dektash and eceivet they should be removed.comprimes.

[metecyp]

Ataturk is an internationally respected personality, in spite of bigots within Turkey, middle east, South Cyprus and all around the world. To the contrary of this, Grivas is an internationally disrespected, well known monarcho-fascist.

I agree with you. There's no question in my mind that comparing Ataturk to Grivas is worse than comparing apples to oranges. But this is the exact type of arguments I'm trying to avoid. I think it's waste of time to try to convince a GC who thinks Grivas is a hero that Ataturk is better than Grivas because in doing so, we sidetrack from our real goal.

Our real goal here is to rename offensive streets in Cyprus in such a way that nobody is offended. First, let's try to get rid of all street names with motherland implications. Then let's get rid of all street names that might be offensive to the other side (eg. Papadopoulos street, Denktash street, if there are any such streets). At this point, both sides have to compromise. Denktash Street might be acceptable to TCs but they should understand that it's not nice for GCs and vice versa. At the end we would get the job done and we'll have street names that everyone agrees. Isn't this much better than trying to convince a GC fanatic that Ataturk is better than Grivas?

[magikthrill]

Let's name our streets to names of flowers, for example. This might sound stupid but nobody will object to live in a Daisy Street, Rose Street, or Tulip street, right? Maybe we can ask street residents to rename their own street. Or maybe we can use Manhattan style street numbering, 1st street, 34th avenue etc.

flowers??? i think you can do better than that. i agree that offensive names involved in violence or disrespect towards the other community should be removed. however, there is no need to remove every single name.

i think both communities want to live together but this shouldnt have to require stripping their ethnic identity.

on another similar topic, what would happen with the name of cities. i mean yes there will be turkish and greek names but what about in Engilsh (ie international). for example lefkos(i)a is nicosia and ammoxostos (i dont the name in turkish) is famagusta but all the small villages in the north are only recognized with their original greek names. would this chnage you think (and please lets not propose changing the names of the villages as well)

[cannedmoose]

flowers??? i think you can do better than that. i agree that offensive names involved in violence or disrespect towards the other community should be removed. however, there is no need to remove every single name.

i think both communities want to live together but this shouldnt have to require stripping their ethnic identity.

I agree Thrill, there must be names acceptable to both sides, not all streets are named after EOKA figures or those associated with violence or aggression towards TCs. So we're not talking about robbing national identity here, rather we're talking about moulding a new identity based upon mutual respect rather than mutual alienation. I know in the big scheme of things the names of streets are incidental, but small things are sometimes the most immediately apparent.

on another similar topic, what would happen with the name of cities. i mean yes there will be turkish and greek names but what about in Engilsh (ie international). for example lefkos(i)a is nicosia and ammoxostos (i dont the name in turkish) is famagusta but all the small villages in the north are only recognized with their original greek names. would this chnage you think (and please lets not propose changing the names of the villages as well)

Famagusta is Gazimağusa in Turkish. I agree with you that it would be ridiculous (and highly confusing) to go changing hundreds of village names. However, there's no reason why signs for major cities can't be done in both languages, with the phonetic english translation for the Greek also. As for official purposes, there is also no reason why Lefkosia for example could not be known as Lefkosia/Lefkosa or Kyrenia as Kyrenia/Girne.

[magikthrill]

Famagusta is Gazimağusa in Turkish.

Yes now I remember. I love that word - Gazimagusa . I also like saying "Lefkoca" (with the c prnounced as sh) but my GC family dont really like that.

Oh wait, am I off topic?

I hope this doesnt mean more censorship :-X

[Piratis]

Personally I wouldn't mind an Atatürk street, although I agree that we should leave motherland politicians out of street names. However I would mind an Attila street or Ecevit street.

The city/village names should keep their original names no matter if its Greek or Turkish. The places that historically (and not just during the last 30 years) had 2 names, they they can keep both names.

[insan]

Personally I wouldn't mind an Atatürk street,

Hi Piratis,

Are you honestly saying this, or trying to make DESI and EDEK sympathizers to reveal their attitudes about Grivas?

[cannedmoose]

Personally I wouldn't mind an Atatürk street, although I agree that we should leave motherland politicians out of street names. However I would mind an Attila street or Ecevit street.

The city/village names should keep their original names no matter if its Greek or Turkish. The places that historically (and not just during the last 30 years) had 2 names, they they can keep both names.

Agreed re, Ecevit Street would be out of bounds due to his intimate association with 1974 anyway. Your point about village names is also a good one, the historical names should stand and where these were bilingual, problem solved.

As an example, I was in Wales last weekend and in north Wales particularly, towns and villages often have two names on signs, English and the Welsh translation e.g. Wrexham (English) and Wrecsam (Welsh) or Holyhead (English) and Caergybi (Welsh). It's not confusing and recognises the heritage of the area as well as recognising that people outside the area generally know the English names and find it easier to navigate that way.

[cannedmoose]

Are you honestly saying this, or trying to make DESI and EDEK sympathizers to reveal their attitudes about Grivas?

Insan, I think we should take Piratis at his word. I've had disagreements with him in the past, but that's past now, he's made a solid contribution to this thread and we should encourage posts like his, not question his motives when there is no evidence to the contrary. This is how unnecessary arguments kick off mate.