No News Not Necessarily Good News.
 | Re: No News Not Necessarily Good News. |  |
 Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:13 pm |
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| Eliko |
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| miltiades wrote: |
| Eliko wrote: |
Have you noticed that recently there has been a distinct shortage of news coverage from Iraq ?.
I think the idea is to create the impression that there is peace and stability in that beseiged land, a well practised ploy by our leaders (who like to keep us in the dark as far as TRUTH is concerned) whilst they are now probably feverishly negotiating with the 'alleged' enemies of freedom in an effort to extricate themselves from a hopeless situation.
No doubt we will soon be hearing of how successful the various measures taken by the aggressors have been, let us not be fooled by such statements, rather, let us consider the plight of the millions of displaced and thousands of dead and dying as a result of the unlawful attack upon the innocents of that nation.
Let us also remember the thousands of dead and injured young men who were 'TRICKED' into engaging with the 'conjured up' enemies at the whim of their (proven to be untruthful) leaders.
How sad to see the mutilated bodies of babies, of young children, of old and young men and women, ALL victims of indiscriminate slaughter perpetrated by both sides of the conflict, the purpose of which will ultimately make not the slightest difference to either those who fight or those who are embroiled in the fighting.
WHO, among all members, whatever their religious beliefs, can justify what has and IS taking place in Iraq today?, whoever says they can should be ashamed to call themselves human.
I have seen it, I have shared the grief of many and I feel ashamed, how about you?.  |
A 2005 Human Rights Watch report analysed the insurgency in Iraq and highlighted, "The groups that are most responsible for the abuse, namely al-Qaeda in Iraq, Ansar al-Sunna and the Islamic Army in Iraq, have all targeted civilians for abductions and executions. The first two groups have repeatedly boasted about massive car bombs and suicide bombs in mosques, markets, bus stations and other civilian areas. Such acts are war crimes and in some cases may constitute crimes against humanity, which are defined as serious crimes committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population |
There is no dispute about what you have highlighted above, the post above it (to which you responded ) clearly states that the responsibility for indiscriminate slaughter lies with BOTH sides of the conflict.
What is debatable is the reason for such conflict, insurgency seems to be the word most bandied about in each report we receive, I wonder if the meaning of that word registers with those who read of it.
An 'insurgent' is a person who wishes to live under the rule of a different government or military force and is prepared to fight for the right to do so.
In the light of the atrocities commited by the U.S. initially and others subsequently, I cannot understand how you can blame them for their stance.
Their country has been unlawfully and murderously attacked under a false pretence (Proven Beyond Doubt), how then can we foist the responsibility upon those who are prepared to kill and die for the right to exist.
The fact that the West would prefer them to adopt our standards and embrace our system, does not give them the right to impose it regardless of their wishes.  |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:59 pm |
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| Eliko |
| professor |
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miltiades, some small additional points regarding 'Crimes Against Humanity'. 
Were not the attacks upon the innocent nation of Iraq 'Widespread and Systematic' 
Were they not also directed at the 'Civilian Population'.
Did they not result in 'Mass Slaughter'
Were there not 'Abductions and subsequent Executions'
At least we should be fair in our attempts to make assessments of those events of which we are allowed scant knowledge, lest we be accused of being in a state of oblivion when such events took (are taking) place. |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:31 pm |
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| GorillaGal |
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| Get Real! wrote: |
They're (US) just a little busier with Iran these days but there's still plenty of coverage... in the right places:
http://www.antiwar.com/ |
thanks for the link GR!
because of this link, i was directed to a page where i can adopt one of the american soldiers abroad and send them a care package! |
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| Re: No News Not Necessarily Good News. | |
| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:48 pm |
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| FreeSpirit |
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| Eliko wrote: |
[insurgency seems to be the word most bandied about in each report we receive, I wonder if the meaning of that word registers with those who read of it.
An 'insurgent' is a person who wishes to live under the rule of a different government or military force and is prepared to fight for the right to do so.
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From The Concise Oxford Dictionary
Insurgent. 1) Rising in active revolt, 2) Rebel.
Insurrection. Rising in open resistance to established authority.
And you would call setting off car bombs in open market places or at funerals; attacks against the so called invaders, I'm not supporting the coalition but murdering your own people seems a strange way of attacking the coalition; or am I missing something here.
Answers about murdering your own fellow Iraqis only please. |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:49 pm |
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| miltiades |
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ELIKO WROTE :
"""""An 'insurgent' is a person who wishes to live under the rule of a different government or military force and is prepared to fight for the right to do so. """"
Eliko , your interpretation of "insurgent" isnt quite right. Do insurgents direct their attacks indiscriminately against men women and children be it in mosques , funerals , market places on buses !!! No Eliko an insurgent in the case of Iraq can only be described as a modern day , mobile phone carrier , SAVAGE. ! Indoctrinated to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that his or her murdering actions will open the road to Paradise, yes Paradise because these unfortunate brain washed barbarians ARE convinced that is where they will be going. They are not fighting an enemy they are targetting and killing the very people that they shpuld be supporting.
NO ELIKO , THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING BECAUSE THE WISH "to live under the rule of a different government or military force and is prepared to fight for the right to do so. """"
They are fighting so that the stupid bastards can become martyrs , go to heaven and receive their rewards ! |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:34 pm |
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| Eliko |
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| miltiades wrote: |
ELIKO WROTE :
"""""An 'insurgent' is a person who wishes to live under the rule of a different government or military force and is prepared to fight for the right to do so. """"
Eliko , your interpretation of "insurgent" isnt quite right. Do insurgents direct their attacks indiscriminately against men women and children be it in mosques , funerals , market places on buses !!! No Eliko an insurgent in the case of Iraq can only be described as a modern day , mobile phone carrier , SAVAGE. ! Indoctrinated to believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that his or her murdering actions will open the road to Paradise, yes Paradise because these unfortunate brain washed barbarians ARE convinced that is where they will be going. They are not fighting an enemy they are targetting and killing the very people that they shpuld be supporting.
NO ELIKO , THEY ARE NOT FIGHTING BECAUSE THE WISH "to live under the rule of a different government or military force and is prepared to fight for the right to do so. """"
They are fighting so that the stupid bastards can become martyrs , go to heaven and receive their rewards ! |
miltiades, your interpretation is patently wrong.
An insurgent is a person who is fighting against the government or military force of his/her own country, that is a fact.
In the case of the insurgents we are discussing, they are fighting against an 'imposed' government and a similarly 'imposed' military force.
Actually, had those same people been fighting against the regime of Saddam, they could have been more correctly labelled 'Insurgents', as it now stands, they should more correctly be referred to as 'Freedom Fighters', obviously that title would not suit the aggressors, hence they refer to them as 'Insurgents.
As to 'Martyrdom', whatever those who oppose the aggressor perceive to be the reward for their struggle, it is a matter for their own conscience and belief, I personally do not agree with indiscriminate slaughter, I do not know of anyone who does, BUT, I suspect there are those in high office positions who couldn't care less as long as it is not they who have to undertake the dirty work.
The end result (as far as the ordinary people are concerned) is nothing different to what it was before the event, in the case of Iraq, it looks like it will be even worse.
It certainly IS at the moment, regardless of the lies we are daily fed, upon THAT you may place a sure dependance. |
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| Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:57 pm |
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| miltiades |
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Anarchist , contumacious , disobedient , factious , insubordinate , mutinous , TERRORIST.
These are just some of the definitions of an insurgent.Eliko , you are so so wrong , Freedom fighters ? Who these savages who blow them selves up in a Mosque , in open market places and you think they should be called Freedom fighters ? You are winding me up !!
They are the scum of the earth , the vicious paleolithic savages who are determined to cause as much death and destruction to innocent people , their people. They should be spat upon and treated with the utmost contempt for they are modern day savages . |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:38 am |
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| Eliko |
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miltiades, if you wish to expand the interpretation of the word 'Insurgent', that is a matter entirely of your own choice.
I prefer to adhere to it's accepted and far more realistic interpretation for a very sound reason.
In the event of them succeeding in their struggle against those who they consider to be their oppressors, YOU will have to concede that :- Anarchist, contumacious, factious, insubordinate, mutinous, TERRORIST, (together with other detrimental titles you have bestowed upon them)..?... have won the day, you will feel dejected.
I, on the other hand, will suffer no such misgivings since I have neither insulted nor condemned them in their efforts to gain freedom from what THEY perceive to be oppression and injustice levied upon them by a mighty foreign force, simply because I do not know the TRUTH of the situation, neither do you.
Neither do I praise them, although I must admit I think they can win for another sound reason, they BELIEVE in the justice of their cause.
The pages of history are littered with examples of the mere surmounting the mighty, who knows, we may be on the threshold of witnessing yet another such example.
In my humble opinion. |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:39 am |
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| FreeSpirit |
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| Eliko wrote: |
[An insurgent is a person who is fighting against the government or military force of his/her own country, that is a fact.
In the case of the insurgents we are discussing, they are fighting against an 'imposed' government and a similarly 'imposed' military force.
: |
And of course the government of Saddam was truly democratic with free elections etc, I don't think so.
So would it be correct to say that it is up to the user how they want to define a word/term?
In your case these so called insurgents who are actualy carrying out terrorist activities that kill far more civillians of all ages; than anyone else ever did other than Saddam Hussain. are defined as insurgents and not terrorists.
Strange how it's alright to kill your own people and not be labled terrorist. |
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:53 am |
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| Eliko |
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FreeSpirit, welcome to the forum and this discussion, if you intend to comment further, please adhere to the topic under the spotlight.
We are not concerned with the regime of Saddam PRIOR to the unlawful attack upon his nation, we are in the process of establishing WHY there was a sudden emergence of disharmony in Iraq, (at least I am trying to head that way) and why has there been so little reporting of the situation there recently.
I would like you to know that I am NOT an Iraqi, neither am I Muslim. |
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