Would a recognised trnc be a burden on EU? and therefore
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:21 pm |
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| Muzzy70 |
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| Joined: 19 May 2008 |
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This was a really good topic, which again has quickly descended into farce and offence. Now there's a surprise !
I have said for a long time that the end game is being played out in Cyprus. Either both communities will agree to re-unify or divorce will be permanent. Let's look at the distinct possibility of divorce. I have it, on very good authority, that in the event of a failed negotiated settlement, a referendum will take place in the TRNC about her future status. Now I know that there are many GC's on this site who go on about 'pseudo state', 'occupied areas' etc, etc but for the Turkish Cypriot community the TRNC exists and as such I will refer to the North as the TRNC. I think that, as the few posts on this topic have shown that the majority of GC's are unable to come to terms with the fact that recognition is a distinct possibility. There is never such a thing as 'never'. As a TC I note that GC's are so convinced by their own status of 'legality' that they are blind to the car crash that awaits them in the event of a failed negotiation. Whether the GC community likes it or not, Kosovo has set a precedent. President Christofias and President Talat know this. Why else has Christofias come running to the negotiating table ? It is also telling that a recent poll in the TRNC was conducted in which just over 50% of respondents stated that they wanted recognition now. This will inevitably increase in the event of a failed negotiation and will be confirmed by a referendum insisting on recognition. Individual EU states are allowed to recognise other states, there is no blanket EU refusal, as the case of Kosovo has shown. It is telling of course that EU member states, Greece and 'Cyprus' have refused to recognise Kosovo. I can see the same scenario with the TRNC. There will be numerous states both inside and outside of the EU block who will recognise the TRNC and then we will all enter a whole new ball game. Indeed I foresee a day when the TRNC will apply to join the EU.
The GC's have to acknowledge that the TC community feels shafted in various ways and are now at the end of their tether. Cyprus became a burden for the EU once the unilateral application to join was made and accepted and was compounded by the Greek Cypriot's decision to reject the re-unification of Cyprus in 2004. Any potential settlement for the GC community will be possibly worse than any previous plan and the inevitable recognition of the TRNC will be the ultimate disaster for that community. However the recognition of the TRNC opens up the eventual long term possibility of a confederation of two independent Cypriot states, in the unlikely event of Turkey joining the EU. Mark my words, the above scenario is likely to happen unless their is an agreement to re-unify. You can have progress without recognition but recognition without progress.
'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright.' |
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:06 pm |
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| Oracle |
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| Joined: 11 Feb 2008 |
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| Location: 35° 00 N, 33º 00 E. |
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The reason the topic was a non-starter was the absurdity of the possibility for "trnc" recognition.
Here we are a few months down the line .. and everyone has given up on even asking for its recognition any longer ....
That's how futile it was ...
(No offence to humanist who did a great job in identifying the futility).
One for the archives "Recognition of "trnc" ...." ... another joke request by the Turk-TCs abandoned ... 
Next .... |
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:08 pm |
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| CopperLine |
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| Financial/economic burden on the EU ? Not at all. The total population of TRNC is that of a large town/small city in the UK eg comparable to Preston, Brighton, Southend, Swindon. It would barely register in EU accounts. |
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:17 pm |
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| CopperLine |
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Contra Oracle's boringly predictable response, consider this :
If TRNC were to be recognised it might be the fastest route to resolution of substantive differences such as property questions as well as 'army of occupation' issues.
As a member of the EU TRNC would be subject to EU law and policy. To have joined the EU TRNC would already have to have agreed the withdrawal removal of Turkish troops. Once a member of EU then EU property law would have to be applied, no derogation or opt-out here. In many, many respects regional differences within EU member states are preserved whilst common law and policy is applied so that a certain level of integration and commonality is achieved. There is little reason to see why this practice could not benefit Cyprus.
(Sure there are strong reasons why Turkey would object to such a proposal, but potentially it is a win-win for TCs and GCs).
Thus recognise TRNC on 31st December, admit TRNC to EU on 1st January and see the effective reintegration occur thereafter. |
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:30 pm |
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| Piratis |
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Your "news" about TCs wanting partition is about 60 years old, and your "news" about TCs declaring it is 25 years old.
It is aparently very hard for you to understand that you can not decide the destiny of a part of a country which belongs by 80% to others who do not approve your crimes.
So go have a "referendum". Maybe we should also have a referendum and declare that half of Turkey belongs to us. I hope you understand how ridiculous your claims are.
The answer to your criminal acts is already given with UN resolutions (posted below).
Your demands have nothing to do with Kossovo. In Cyprus we are talking about a foreign country invading another sovereign country, occupying 1/3rd of it, ethnically cleansing the great majority of the native population from it and replacing them with foreign settlers. So where did you see the similarities with Kossovo?
If someone has to worry about Kossovo setting a president that is Turkey with Kurdistan.
You declared the pseudo state in 1983, and re-declaring it will mean nothing more. You simply have no authority over land that belongs to others by 80%, and any of your attempts to decide the destiny of that land are and will remain illegal.
If some countries wanted to recognize your pseudo state they could have done so since 1983. The more that you can hope for is recognition from something like Azerbaijan and similar 3rd world countries.
| Quote: |
RESOLUTION 541 (1983)
Adopted by the Security Council
on 18 November 1983
The Security Council,
Having heard the statement of the Foreign Minister of the Government of the Republic of Cyprus,
Concerned at the declaration by the Turkish Cypriot authorities issued on 15 November 1983 which purports to create an independent state in northern Cyprus,
Considering that this declaration is incompatible with the 1960 Treaty concerning the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus and the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee,
Considering therefore that the attempt to create a "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", is invalid, and will contribute to a worsening of the situation in Cyprus,
Reaffirming its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975),
Aware of the need for a solution of the Cyprus problem, based on the mission of good offices undertaken by the Secretary-General,
Affirming its continuing support for the United Nations Peace-Keeping Force in Cyprus,
Taking note of the Secretary-General's statement of 17 November 1983,
1. Deplores the declaration of the Turkish Cypriot authorities of the purported secession of part of the Republic of Cyprus;
2. Considers the declaration referred to above as legally invalid and calls for its withdrawal;
3. Calls for the urgent and effective implementation of its resolutions 365(1974) and 367(1975);
4. Requests the Secretary-General to pursue his mission of good offices in order to achieve the earliest possible progress towards a just and lasting settlement in Cyprus;
5. Calls upon the parties to cooperate fully with the Secretary-General in his mission of good offices;
6. Calls upon all States to respect the sovereignty, independence, territorial integrity and non-alignment of the Republic of Cyprus;
7. Calls upon all States not to recognise any Cypriot state other than the Republic of Cyprus;
8. Calls upon all States and the two communities in Cyprus to refrain from any action which might exacerbate the situation;
9. Requests the Secretary-General to keep the Security Council fully informed.
Adopted at the 2500th meeting by 13 votes to 1 against (Pakistan) with 1 abstention (Jordan).
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:22 am |
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| Viewpoint |
| vip |
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| Time Piratis time....tick tick tick. |
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:54 pm |
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| Kifeas |
| professor |
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| Joined: 18 Mar 2005 |
| Posts: 4050 |
| Location: Lapithos, Kyrenia, now Pafos; Cyprus. |
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| CopperLine wrote: |
Contra Oracle's boringly predictable response, consider this :
If TRNC were to be recognised it might be the fastest route to resolution of substantive differences such as property questions as well as 'army of occupation' issues.
As a member of the EU TRNC would be subject to EU law and policy. To have joined the EU TRNC would already have to have agreed the withdrawal removal of Turkish troops. Once a member of EU then EU property law would have to be applied, no derogation or opt-out here. In many, many respects regional differences within EU member states are preserved whilst common law and policy is applied so that a certain level of integration and commonality is achieved. There is little reason to see why this practice could not benefit Cyprus.
(Sure there are strong reasons why Turkey would object to such a proposal, but potentially it is a win-win for TCs and GCs).
Thus recognise TRNC on 31st December, admit TRNC to EU on 1st January and see the effective reintegration occur thereafter. |
Believe it, this man is nuts! He has no clue of what he is talking about! He has no clue of what the "TRNC" is and what it stands for, and yet he thinks its recognition and EU accession is some kind of a feasible and a realistic possibility!
My friend, “TRNC,” a regime or an “entity” that its very “foundation” and “constitution” are predominately based on ethnic cleansing, foreign occupation, massive property theft and colonization by a foreign country, all in the expense and detriment of the area’s indigenous inhabitants, has absolutely zero legitimacy to even exist, set aside to ever become recognized and then become an EU member!
Get serious man! Get real! |
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:59 pm |
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| Get Real! |
| vip |
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| Joined: 26 Feb 2007 |
| Posts: 8442 |
| Location: Nicosia |
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| Kifeas wrote: |
| CopperLine wrote: |
Contra Oracle's boringly predictable response, consider this :
If TRNC were to be recognised it might be the fastest route to resolution of substantive differences such as property questions as well as 'army of occupation' issues.
As a member of the EU TRNC would be subject to EU law and policy. To have joined the EU TRNC would already have to have agreed the withdrawal removal of Turkish troops. Once a member of EU then EU property law would have to be applied, no derogation or opt-out here. In many, many respects regional differences within EU member states are preserved whilst common law and policy is applied so that a certain level of integration and commonality is achieved. There is little reason to see why this practice could not benefit Cyprus.
(Sure there are strong reasons why Turkey would object to such a proposal, but potentially it is a win-win for TCs and GCs).
Thus recognise TRNC on 31st December, admit TRNC to EU on 1st January and see the effective reintegration occur thereafter. |
Believe it, this man is nuts! He has no clue of what he is talking about! He has no clue of what the "TRNC" is and what it stands for, and yet he thinks its recognition and EU accession is some kind of a feasible and a realistic possibility!
My friend, “TRNC,” a regime or an “entity” that its very “foundation” and “constitution” are predominately based on ethnic cleansing, foreign occupation, massive property theft and colonization by a foreign country, all in the expense and detriment of the area’s indigenous inhabitants, has absolutely zero legitimacy to even exist, set aside to ever become recognized and then become an EU member!
Get serious man! Get real! |
Don't judge him too soon... he hasn't got to the bit yet where the "TRNC" joins NATO and NAFTA...  |
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:44 pm |
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| roseandchan |
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| Joined: 26 Jan 2008 |
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| Location: pinarbasi |
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| i don't think it will be a burden. look at countries like bulgaria and romania i think they are more of a burden and they still let them in. |
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:08 pm |
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| Kifeas |
| professor |
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| Joined: 18 Mar 2005 |
| Posts: 4050 |
| Location: Lapithos, Kyrenia, now Pafos; Cyprus. |
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| Muzzy70 wrote: |
This was a really good topic, which again has quickly descended into farce and offence. Now there's a surprise !
I have said for a long time that the end game is being played out in Cyprus. Either both communities will agree to re-unify or divorce will be permanent. Let's look at the distinct possibility of divorce. I have it, on very good authority, that in the event of a failed negotiated settlement, a referendum will take place in the TRNC about her future status. Now I know that there are many GC's on this site who go on about 'pseudo state', 'occupied areas' etc, etc but for the Turkish Cypriot community the TRNC exists and as such I will refer to the North as the TRNC. I think that, as the few posts on this topic have shown that the majority of GC's are unable to come to terms with the fact that recognition is a distinct possibility. There is never such a thing as 'never'. As a TC I note that GC's are so convinced by their own status of 'legality' that they are blind to the car crash that awaits them in the event of a failed negotiation. Whether the GC community likes it or not, Kosovo has set a precedent. President Christofias and President Talat know this. Why else has Christofias come running to the negotiating table ? It is also telling that a recent poll in the TRNC was conducted in which just over 50% of respondents stated that they wanted recognition now. This will inevitably increase in the event of a failed negotiation and will be confirmed by a referendum insisting on recognition. Individual EU states are allowed to recognise other states, there is no blanket EU refusal, as the case of Kosovo has shown. It is telling of course that EU member states, Greece and 'Cyprus' have refused to recognise Kosovo. I can see the same scenario with the TRNC. There will be numerous states both inside and outside of the EU block who will recognise the TRNC and then we will all enter a whole new ball game. Indeed I foresee a day when the TRNC will apply to join the EU.
The GC's have to acknowledge that the TC community feels shafted in various ways and are now at the end of their tether. Cyprus became a burden for the EU once the unilateral application to join was made and accepted and was compounded by the Greek Cypriot's decision to reject the re-unification of Cyprus in 2004. Any potential settlement for the GC community will be possibly worse than any previous plan and the inevitable recognition of the TRNC will be the ultimate disaster for that community. However the recognition of the TRNC opens up the eventual long term possibility of a confederation of two independent Cypriot states, in the unlikely event of Turkey joining the EU. Mark my words, the above scenario is likely to happen unless their is an agreement to re-unify. You can have progress without recognition but recognition without progress.
'Remove your life jacket and everything will be allright.' |
Muzzy, It is indeed unbelievable how they manage to delude you to such an extent! I only hope that there aren't too many TCs out there maintaining the same delusions that you seem to do! |
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