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Annan division plan VS Piratis division plan.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby michalis5354 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:29 pm

markou96 wrote:Pirati,

I do not pretend that I am an expert of politics but I believe that a better solution will present itself after we officially join the E.U. I don't believe that the E.U. will allow Turkey to occupy any of its area. I understand why our leadership and everybody else is trying to find a solution before May but I believe they are simply trying too hard..


All the Intrnational experts and analyst have concluded that after 1 May things would not be that easy for a settlement. On the other hand the UN the USA and the EU all have expressed their willingness to reach a settlement prior to 1 May .

Furthermore we run so many Risk and uncertainties if we relax like that . We loose our Credibility Internationally which is all what we have right now and Ending Turkey being a member in EU with no settlement in Cyprus . Because its the Greekcypriot side who had rejected the solution and Not Turkey.

Actually Turkey would have beein very happy If the Greekcypriot side rejected the solution at the end. Havent you noticed how HARD Turkey is trying to prove that is the Greekcypriot side who is resposible for the statues quo.
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Postby michalis5354 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:34 pm

markou96 wrote:Turkish Cypriots are a minority and should be treated as such and not be elevated into a statehood.



How can they be a minority If the Vice president of the Cyprus rebublic was a Turksih cypriot in 1960? They are not !!!!!.
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Postby metecyp » Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:14 pm

I repeat:
I do not blame you. Everybody wants to get as much as possible. What you get in Annan plan is possible only on paper. We will never accept such thing – period.

You're trying to say that I'm being greedy, and it's not true. Annan plan is a very balanced plan, and it was prepared by many experts from EU, US, etc. So if you think that I'm being greedy by asking Annan plan, I suggest you go and talk to the people who wrote the plan. T/Cs had no participation in writing the plan, and there are many aspects of Annan plan that are bad for T/Cs as well, such as 80.000-100.000 T/Cs beign refuges again (3rd time). So it's not all good for T/Cs either.

I bet you wouldn't have preferred division to Annan plan if the structure in the south was not recognized as the legitimate government of whole Cyprus. The reason why division is not so bad for you is the fact that you possess something that you were supposed to share with T/Cs, and now there's no reason for you to share anything, because the whole world recognizes only your side as the legitimate government of Cyprus, and hence you prefer division to Annan plan.

You're right that you wouldn't accept anything worse than now for you, but you have to realize that what you have right now is not completely yours. You call Cyprus a "democratic" country, but it never bothers you that in this "democratic" country, T/Cs had no participation in the government for 40 years, and no "democratic" citizen felt uncomfortable about it.
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Minority?

Postby tcypriot » Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:23 pm

I've read the messages of some ignorants saying that we turkishcypriots are a minority.Even in 1960 republic that lasted for only three years because of greedy people like you; we were one of the two equal majorities of the island.

The minorities of cyprus are latins,armenians and maronites and hopefully in some time things like you will also be added to the minority list as "ignorant fascists"..


Everything happened to our beautiful motherland because of idiots like you.Fanatic gcs wake up they made you believe that you are the majority and we are the minority..They made you believe this way and Greek propaganda convinced you that you can get our rights from our hands.

You fanatics are acting as if you are the owners of cyprus and giving aways some rights to us the %20 minority...Wake up fanatics wake up..In 1963 our beloved Cyprus Republic ended because of things like you...Yes you are traitors..Things like you betrayed Cyprus and caused our motherland to divide...Things like you betray even their own community when the time comes as it was between 14th and 20th of july 1974..Thousands of cypriots(Greekcypriot) died because of the fact that traitors like you moved together with a foreign country(greece) to make our beloved mainland a province...

Oh and by the way your simple thoughts about being european citizen and kind of simple comments..Wake up!! fanatics wake up!! Are belgian or swiss people less clever than things like you that they are living under federations?

Are they less clever in Belgium than things like you that Flemings(%65) dont call Walloons which are about 28% --- minority of %28 as things like you would do.. But are they rather sharing the prosperity of belgium together in a cooperating,peacefull mood..In switzerland there are cantons with one tenth the population of the canton next to it but they have politically equal say.So no one can dominate the other...If you want to be real european citizens not some mistakenly included citizens try to learn more about european federation tradition....

Wake up fanatics wake up!! Wake up you remnants of the 20th century nazism..Wake up!!

Federated Cyprus will have enough checks in its constitution as provided by the annan plan to stop things like you from both sides to try to unite our motherland with some other countrie..

In United Cyprus Republic no community's demands will be able to dominate the other thus even if traitors like you get to power in one part of our mainland, the other part of our mainland will be a safekeep for cypriotity against foreignism of our island.

But here what is important is that , greekcypriot peace and solution demander people should be the ones to correct the ill working of your minds because they are also hurt because of your faults...

Michalis gave a very nice reply to you about the fact whether we tcs are a minority or not..And gcs like him are greekspeaking compatriots for us..

The politics of your kind, fanatics caused our mainland to divide.The period of 1963-1974 and its end is the result of traitors like you fanatics..Look what your ideas that we tcs are a minority cause to our mainland!!! Wake up fanatics wake up!!
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Postby markou96 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:33 pm

How can they be a minority If the Vice president of the Cyprus rebublic was a Turksih cypriot in 1960? They are not !!!!!.


Simply because the consitution imposed to us by Great Britain and the two mother nations provided for the Vice President to be from the minority group. The rest of the minorities, Latins, Maronites, opted to be included into the Greek community. I say imposed because we were a young and impressionable nation, with no real experience in politics. After receiving pressure and assurances by the so called mother nations and G.B. we accepted the constitution. In fact I believe that at the negotiations for it no representative of the nation was even present. So don't tell me that other countries have our best interest in mind. They all consider us as something unimportant and inferior.

And by the way, minority simply means that they are less than the rest...in other words, a particular ethnic group comprises a smaller proportion of the total population. It does not mean that a minority is a any lesser in importance or in their rights as citizens of Cyprus.


Therefore there is ONLY ONE STATE which is the case in any Federal model INTERNATIONALLY LIke the ANAN PLAN .


Let me point out to you that with the VETO power of the minority nothing will ever be accomplished. Let us say for example that there is a proposal in the Parliament for the construction of a super highway that will connect the harbors of Limassol and Kerynia but unfortunately the proposed plans calls for rellocation of two Turkish Cypriot village, on the grounds that that is the only economically feasible route for the construction. Now, the highway will open up new econimic opportunitities and unparallel wealth to the nation. (I'm over simplifying because I'm making a point). The Greek Cypriot President proposed the plan but unfortunately the Turkish Cypriot Vice President vetoes it and rejects it because most of his electoral people come from the said areas.....According to the new plan...that was it...end of discussion...goodbye progress...and before you say what if the situation were to reversed I'm only going to say that it happened to me when they constructed the new highway (some years ago) to connect Larnaca and Nicosia.

And by the way, our federation will be nothing like the USA model, which I also find only workable because of the enormous size of the country. We are a country with a population less than that of a major city. Internationally speaking, the whole island, population wise, is about the size of a big town...not even a city.

And another thing about the USA model. I don't think that New Yorkers were evicted from Texas and then forced to stand idle while the aggresors enjoyed their homes and properties. In fact most of New Yorkers haven't even been to Texas.
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Postby metecyp » Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:39 pm

Let me point out to you that with the VETO power of the minority nothing will ever be accomplished

You're making judgements from assumptions and you're exaggerrating this veto issue. I said this before, but I'll say it again until you get it. Between 1960-1963, Dr. Kutchuk (T/C Vice President) used his veto power only once! Republic of Cyprus did not collapse because the Vice President abused his veto power. So at least stop using veto power as an excuse!
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Postby michalis5354 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:20 pm

I agree 100% with you Tcypriot above.

markou96 wrote:
Simply because the consitution imposed to us by Great Britain and the two mother nations provided for the Vice President to be from the minority group..


So what is wrong with that ? If the Greekcypriots were willing to cooperate perfectly with the Turksihcypriots without fanatism and ethnic feelings I have no doubt that the constitution COULD WORK UNTIL TODAY perfectly as this happens internationally . But As you know this has not been the case and the Constitution collapsed.

There has been anarchy and stupidity and Fanatism among many Greekcypriots. OFcourse I call EXTREMIST these ignorants who wanted to unite my country with Greece.

Even today there has been no Objective source that I can get information on the period of 1960 - 1974. Of course I get all these Information from other sources but NOT Cyprus Sources. Is this a Democracy ? As a Cypriot I have every right to get to know the Real history of Cyprus and the History of Cyprus INCLUDES the above period. Even today Greekcypriot youths I dont think they are informed objectively about the above matter and thats very sad!

markou96 wrote:
So don't tell me that other countries have our best interest in mind. They all consider us as something unimportant and inferior.


Yes but Even Greece had accepted the Constitition ! Dont tell me that Greece wanted to harm Cyprus too. Yes International Community may see things differently but in no way to HARM ANYONE.



markou96 wrote:
Let me point out to you that with the VETO power of the minority nothing will ever be accomplished. Let us say for example that there is a proposal in the Parliament for the construction of a super highway that will connect the harbors of Limassol and Kerynia but unfortunately the proposed plans calls for rellocation of two Turkish Cypriot village, on the grounds that that is the only economically feasible route for the construction. Now, the highway will open up new econimic opportunitities and unparallel wealth to the nation. (I'm over simplifying because I'm making a point). The Greek Cypriot President proposed the plan but unfortunately the Turkish Cypriot Vice President vetoes it and rejects it because most of his electoral people come from the said areas.....According to the new plan...that was it...end of discussion...goodbye progress...and before you say what if the situation were to reversed I'm only going to say that it happened to me when they constructed the new highway (some years ago) to connect Larnaca and Nicosia.



Dont speak about scenarios that may not happen .Maybe Turksihcypriots are completely different to what you have described above and they come forward with constructive and forward thinking attitude How do you know? And I know there are lots of highly educated Turksihcypriots that can represent their country very well. Equally the Turksihcypriots can say the above about the Greekcypriots! Do you think that they dont care If the constitution is functioning or not , of course they do !
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Postby michalis5354 » Fri Mar 12, 2004 9:25 pm

It is not Turkey who organised the Greek coup. It is not Turkey who wanted to UNITE CYPRUS WITH GREECE.

Turkey had every right according to the treaty signed to intervend in 1974 since the Fanatics from Greece assisted by evil mindeds in Cyprus had took the LAW in their hands and started to kill innocent GCs and TCs . Thanks god Im still alive!

Stop blaming Turkey and acknowldge the mistakes that have been done.
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Postby Piratis » Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:50 am

tcypriot, I woke up! :wink:
I woke up in the only recognized state on the island and soon I will be waking up in the EU (unlike your beloved motherland that can see the EU only while sleeping). In some weeks I will wake up and go to vote a big fat no to some referendum like the great majority of people on this island.
I will be waking up, and every day will be better than the last one. We have aims, we have a future, we move ahead.
Meanwhile you can shout and swear as much as you want. I am not going to drop at your level, if that is what you expected. Those manners do not suit civilized Europeans. I guess for your kind they are ok though so continue if you wish.

Keep sleeping in the arms of your beloved motherland and don’t worry about a thing. This is what every smart Turkish Cypriot should do. :roll:
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Postby michalis5354 » Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:42 pm

As long as there are ignorant Greekcypriots who call the turksihcypriots a minority on the island I can understand how WISE and Clever is Denktash and Turkey with their own policies! Thats the true.

piratis If you think that Turkey is far away from EU you will be mistaken when you will find out this December on the progress that Turkey has achieved and it is going to Join the EU Very soon. Wait and you will see. probably at that time you will wake up really.


The Greek and Turksih cultures in cyprus co-existed for centuries and any attempt to eliminate one of them It is ethnically very wrong.

Civilised europeans which you claim that YOU ARE , Do not behave like YOU , Sorry to say . They accept different religions and cultures and THEY ARE NOT RACIST LIKE YOU .
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