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RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby zan » Sat Apr 05, 2008 7:09 pm

boomerang wrote:
zan wrote:
boomerang wrote:zan, I am sorry to say, but somewhere along you got lost in space...and this, failing to see that the dynamics have changed since the RoC join the EU...

Even "turkey=fascist state" recognises this...they went from problem solved in 74 to asking for a solution...in other words you got sold out buddy...

But its ok...I know and understand the meaning of getting sold out...we have been through it ourselves...

Don't agree with me?...take a look what the ATCA boys are saying... :lol: ...not a nice feeling...

There is only one Cyprus and it only caters for the Cyrpiots...unless of cource you wanna be a bitch to the motherlands...there is no free lunch Zan


It is not my fault that you fall for every line that you are fed Boomers and now you are trying to sell me one......Turkey has always asked for a solution...It is Tpap and the likes that have always insisted on unreasonable demands that one has not come about. The fact that you swallow each and every bit of propaganda that Turkey, Greece and who ever puts out is your downfall and not mine. The twists and turns are simple to interpret if you use hindsight and try to look clever. The fact remains that a solution has to be the right one or we will walk...Turkey has not changed one bit on that. We will not let her. This is a two way thing mate. With all this in mind you are still telling little stories to scare the children and not offering the fair deal that will sort it all out. We are not going to be second class citizens in our own country Boomers so you had better get used to it. We are talking as one now and we know what we want and what we do not.


I was going to bed...

But let us look at the timeline...we went from

1...no more Cyprus problem
2...We will annex if the Roc joins the EU
3...we want a solution...

You can swallow all you want zan...but can you dispute the above?...I do not thnk so..."turkey=fascist state" has indeed changed her stance a few times...

Tomorrow you will do as to what you are told...

And on top of that you are sitting on ethnically cleansed land and you want to negotiate...and then you wonder and complain as to why recognition hasn't and won't come your way...the mind boggles...something in the water perhaps?

Mate you have been sold out...explain to me as to why "turkey=fascist state" accepted the fact there is an RoC whle she accepted her yes vote?

Maybe it was the martians... :lol:

End of the day "tukey=fascist state" will tell you what to do coz she is footing the bill...even the boys at ATCA are screaming the heads off...atleast they are being realistic when they say you have been sold out...

"turkey=fascist state" has EU aspirations and there is nothing you can do about it...why join a club if you do not have faith/believe in it in the first place?


PS..."turkey=fascist state" has changed her mind and its trying to get you the best deal...thats it...

Kikapu is right in saying the reason you outnembered in the north is becauseone day you will not have a say in the future...with all these "turks=fascist people" around...then what?...you gonna fight your bros? :lol:


I have no idea who is left at the ATCA site Boomers but Wasn't you who said that they had no idea what they were doing and now you are quoting them.......More scary stories hey!!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:


As I said...You can swallow what ever it is that makes you feel good but I think you will find that threats and throwing ones toys out of the pram are all in the name of the game and not always as they seem...I thought you said you were in business??? I think it was the "RoC" that said they were going to vote YES to the Annan Plan...What happened there skippy???? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry mate but I have exorcised a few ghosts since I started with the Cyprob and it seems that I am not that scared of the dark any more.


OH! I gotta tell you......

I was having this recurring dream that I will not go fully into but i will tell you that the ending was always the same with me waking up in a cold sweat and shaking with fear and not knowing why.....


Well I was telling this dream to my mum for the first time the other night ( I don't like to tell my mum these sort of things because she worries more than she should but the time was right so I did) and she worked it out for me....


I always used to wake at the point when my brother took me to the top of a third or forth story building and asking me to look into an old chest......As he opened the chest I would wake in fear....


My mum told me that we used to climb those stairs in 63/64 if we thought the Greeks were coming and up there we kept a sling shot and some stones and a stove to heat some oil up so we could throw it over the attacking Greeks. She said that although I was only three and played while all this was going on she could see that I was fully alert and sort of knew...She even caught me crying in the corner to myself once and said that she realised that I kept it all in.

I wonder how many other small children were effected in that way and are now still having bad dreams they cannot explain.....I would like to talk to some of them and maybe help..... :cry:
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:47 pm

...it wasn't Greeks or Cypriots that you were defending yourself against, it is the greed and intolerance that some people feel against others; this has to do with Ignorance, and nothing to do with ethnicity. In essence, by being 'a Turk' because this terror that sees you this way is 'Greek' only feeds this enmity, as in Turkey...

where Turkishness even has an Official definition, so too accepting perhaps, that Greek is the lingua franca here.
self representation for Turkish Cypriots... so too for Kurds and Armenians, in this context.
these acts would not bring harm to the fabric of either State, as it is today
they would serve by providing for their citizenship an identity in which they are all equal
and in which minorities can have as much pride.
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Postby boomerang » Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:40 am

zan wrote:
boomerang wrote:
zan wrote:
boomerang wrote:zan, I am sorry to say, but somewhere along you got lost in space...and this, failing to see that the dynamics have changed since the RoC join the EU...

Even "turkey=fascist state" recognises this...they went from problem solved in 74 to asking for a solution...in other words you got sold out buddy...

But its ok...I know and understand the meaning of getting sold out...we have been through it ourselves...

Don't agree with me?...take a look what the ATCA boys are saying... :lol: ...not a nice feeling...

There is only one Cyprus and it only caters for the Cyrpiots...unless of cource you wanna be a bitch to the motherlands...there is no free lunch Zan


It is not my fault that you fall for every line that you are fed Boomers and now you are trying to sell me one......Turkey has always asked for a solution...It is Tpap and the likes that have always insisted on unreasonable demands that one has not come about. The fact that you swallow each and every bit of propaganda that Turkey, Greece and who ever puts out is your downfall and not mine. The twists and turns are simple to interpret if you use hindsight and try to look clever. The fact remains that a solution has to be the right one or we will walk...Turkey has not changed one bit on that. We will not let her. This is a two way thing mate. With all this in mind you are still telling little stories to scare the children and not offering the fair deal that will sort it all out. We are not going to be second class citizens in our own country Boomers so you had better get used to it. We are talking as one now and we know what we want and what we do not.


I was going to bed...

But let us look at the timeline...we went from

1...no more Cyprus problem
2...We will annex if the Roc joins the EU
3...we want a solution...

You can swallow all you want zan...but can you dispute the above?...I do not thnk so..."turkey=fascist state" has indeed changed her stance a few times...

Tomorrow you will do as to what you are told...

And on top of that you are sitting on ethnically cleansed land and you want to negotiate...and then you wonder and complain as to why recognition hasn't and won't come your way...the mind boggles...something in the water perhaps?

Mate you have been sold out...explain to me as to why "turkey=fascist state" accepted the fact there is an RoC whle she accepted her yes vote?

Maybe it was the martians... :lol:

End of the day "tukey=fascist state" will tell you what to do coz she is footing the bill...even the boys at ATCA are screaming the heads off...atleast they are being realistic when they say you have been sold out...

"turkey=fascist state" has EU aspirations and there is nothing you can do about it...why join a club if you do not have faith/believe in it in the first place?


PS..."turkey=fascist state" has changed her mind and its trying to get you the best deal...thats it...

Kikapu is right in saying the reason you outnembered in the north is becauseone day you will not have a say in the future...with all these "turks=fascist people" around...then what?...you gonna fight your bros? :lol:


I have no idea who is left at the ATCA site Boomers but Wasn't you who said that they had no idea what they were doing and now you are quoting them.......More scary stories hey!!! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol:


As I said...You can swallow what ever it is that makes you feel good but I think you will find that threats and throwing ones toys out of the pram are all in the name of the game and not always as they seem...I thought you said you were in business??? I think it was the "RoC" that said they were going to vote YES to the Annan Plan...What happened there skippy???? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry mate but I have exorcised a few ghosts since I started with the Cyprob and it seems that I am not that scared of the dark any more.


OH! I gotta tell you......

I was having this recurring dream that I will not go fully into but i will tell you that the ending was always the same with me waking up in a cold sweat and shaking with fear and not knowing why.....


Well I was telling this dream to my mum for the first time the other night ( I don't like to tell my mum these sort of things because she worries more than she should but the time was right so I did) and she worked it out for me....


I always used to wake at the point when my brother took me to the top of a third or forth story building and asking me to look into an old chest......As he opened the chest I would wake in fear....


My mum told me that we used to climb those stairs in 63/64 if we thought the Greeks were coming and up there we kept a sling shot and some stones and a stove to heat some oil up so we could throw it over the attacking Greeks. She said that although I was only three and played while all this was going on she could see that I was fully alert and sort of knew...She even caught me crying in the corner to myself once and said that she realised that I kept it all in.

I wonder how many other small children were effected in that way and are now still having bad dreams they cannot explain.....I would like to talk to some of them and maybe help..... :cry:


Zan the same people are left at ATCA...can leopards change their spots?... :lol:

As I said...You can swallow what ever it is that makes you feel good but I think you will find that threats and throwing ones toys out of the pram are all in the name of the game and not always as they seem...I thought you said you were in business??? I think it was the "RoC" that said they were going to vote YES to the Annan Plan...What happened there skippy???? :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I am no quite sure what the hell is you are trying to say ZAn...but the fact remains that "turkey=fascist state" is selling you out bit by bit...no doubt about that...just look at the way "turkey=fascist state" changed her position as I have outloned in my post...Mate they care as much as what Greece does about us...We are expandable...Greece was ready to go to war for a couple of damn rocks, but not for us...this tells me a lot...both motherlands are out to screw us...The best thing is breaking the shackles and getting into the EU...Atleast now we are on equal footing with the rest of the Europe...

zan you are not the only one with phobias mate...I react differently to sirens...I still remember the days of the sirens as it was yesterday...

I guess there are a lot of us out there scarred for life...Something I wouldn't wish on anyone...

The fact that we are all here is because we do share a bond...as they say...ouna fatsa ouna ratsa... :lol:
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Postby zan » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:58 am

OK..What I am saying is that you have fallen for the rhetoric and I am also telling you that there is more to it than that.....The Turks, as a whole have been crap at playing the Tpap game and have only caught up in the last few decades.....That all!!!



As for my story.....I did not say anywhere that I am the only person to have suffered Boomers and that must be evident from the fact that I said that I would like to talk to people of my age that still have dreams that they cannot explain. I just explained that mine was still unexplained until a few nights ago and I feel sorry for those that might still be going through it. It is one thing to know what you are afraid of but quite another to be afraid but have no explanation as to why. I have no memories, just fear. Now I have something to relate to. Makes me feel a little better.
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Postby boomerang » Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:20 am

zan wrote:OK..What I am saying is that you have fallen for the rhetoric and I am also telling you that there is more to it than that.....The Turks, as a whole have been crap at playing the Tpap game and have only caught up in the last few decades.....That all!!!



As for my story.....I did not say anywhere that I am the only person to have suffered Boomers and that must be evident from the fact that I said that I would like to talk to people of my age that still have dreams that they cannot explain. I just explained that mine was still unexplained until a few nights ago and I feel sorry for those that might still be going through it. It is one thing to know what you are afraid of but quite another to be afraid but have no explanation as to why. I have no memories, just fear. Now I have something to relate to. Makes me feel a little better.

You are not on your own zan...maybe you should atleast try and understand Oracle...we all suffered....and some still suffering...

As far as the "turks=fascist people" are concern. their thinking is way way outdated...just take a look at what goes on in "turkey=fascist state" today to get some dimension how backwards their thinking is...

Blaming Paps for the way the "turks=fascist people" behave is over the top... :lol:

As far as the rhetoric goes...hey I just outlined to you how "turkey's=fascist state" stance has changed and slowly and surely it this change hasn't stopped evolving...On the bright side the change is a welcome change...slow, but eventually will get there...
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:45 am

...the interlocutors have other reasons for their interest in this island...

We are the island dwellers, this is our home, and we love this land.

zan without wanting to repeat myself, your dependance on TPap for your mantra is no different to a GC who would have, as his/her talice, Denktash. you can repeat it all the time over and over again and again and you will alawaays be right. And although TPap is an exquisite barrister, to have caused you so much pain, Denktash, equals Makarios in his skill at negociations, for over thirty(fifty) years, if not for opening the gates, one would hardly wonder what was his aim for Turkish Cypriots.

TPap, and his Government have a legacy which is far more complex than you portray. Yet we have never been closer to some sort of Partition, however he is a man who is a contemporary of the rank of men who as leaders are rarely seen in any lifetime. The debate among these men, and that includes the present leaders have surely been refined by the years and years of negociations, I trust that they are Cypriot, that it is a matter of will, of magic; to be comprehensive they are patient, they all seek perfection.

You blame TPap like the line has been drawn and it is finished. I suggest to you that a few lines, a chapter or two, about Tpap will be written in the Legacy we will leave as the dwellers: which as yet remains unwritten, as yet it remains unfinished.

Quite frankly, the boomer is a straight cookie. In 'reality' nothing is better than the 'Unitary State' which allows for one vote to each citizen where they are equal, as Individuals having Rights, under a Rule of Law. But we are communal, bicommunal by our Constitution. To be Represented as a Cypriot, as well as a Turkish Cypriot and a Greek Cypriot, it requires two levels of Government. (a Federal Government, Two National Assemblies: three governing authorities) or a Unitary State as one Government and communal chambers.

But...boomer, not unlike OP, and bill, are the white folk of the western world, this is all bullshit experimention in social engineering they might say, and it is true, they see it, for what it is, and say it, out loud.

...None of us are far apart however, because in truth we are all white folk, with the time to write to each other in English. So i'm with them, and in any other Modern Country Turkish Cypriots would hold the balance of power in any Government by being a Minority. Needless to say reforms to the Constitution must be made. Provision for Turkish Cypriot self-representation with reciprocal rights for Greek Cypriots, (so that they can sustain these elements in Cypriot culture), can be made.

On the other hand, I believe my proposal is the ultimate Solution under the circumstances.
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Postby Oracle » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:59 am

Thanks to Boomerang for posting this on the "Memes" thread ...

I think it needs weighing up as putative evidence for the underlying "fairness and reciprocity" offers and how they are likely to be received as a solution by certain individuals ...




http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080404/ ... 8.738.html

'Ruthlessness gene' discovered

Dictatorial behaviour may be partly genetic, study suggests.

Could a gene be partly responsible for the behaviour of some of the worlds most infamous dictators?
Selfish dictators may owe their behaviour partly to their genes, according to a study that claims to have found a genetic link to ruthlessness. The study might help to explain the money-grabbing tendencies of those with a Machiavellian streak — from national dictators down to 'little Hitlers' found in workplaces the world over.

Researchers at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem found a link between a gene called AVPR1a and ruthless behaviour in an economic exercise called the 'Dictator Game'. The exercise allows players to behave selflessly, or like money-grabbing dictators such as former Zaire President Mobutu, who plundered the mineral wealth of his country to become one of the world's richest men while its citizens suffered in poverty.

The researchers don't know the mechanism by which the gene influences behaviour. It may mean that for some, the old adage that "it is better to give than to receive" simply isn't true, says team leader Richard Ebstein. The reward centres in those brains may derive less pleasure from altruistic acts, he suggests, perhaps causing them to behave more selfishly.

Prosocial hormone
Ebstein and his colleagues decided to look at AVPR1a because it is known to produce receptors in the brain that detect vasopressin, a hormone involved in altruism and 'prosocial' behaviour. Studies of prairie voles have previously shown that this hormone is important for binding together these rodents' tight-knit social groups.

Ebstein's team wondered whether differences in how this receptor is expressed in the human brain may make different people more or less likely to behave generously.

To find out, they tested DNA samples from more than 200 student volunteers, before asking the students to play the dictator game (volunteers were not told the name of the game, lest it influence their behaviour). Students were divided into two groups: 'dictators' and 'receivers' (called 'A' and 'B' to the participants). Each dictator was told that they would receive 50 shekels (worth about US$14), but were free to share as much or as little of this with a receiver, whom they would never have to meet. The receiver's fortunes thus depended entirely on the dictator's generosity.

About 18% of all dictators kept all of the money, Ebstein and his colleagues report in the journal Genes, Brain and Behavior 1. About one-third split the money down the middle, and a generous 6% gave the whole lot away.

Long and short
There was no connection between the participants' gender and their behaviour, the team reports. But there was a link to the length of the AVPR1a gene: people were more likely to behave selfishly the shorter their version of this gene.

It isn't clear how the length of AVPR1a affects vasopressin receptors: it is thought that rather than controlling the number of receptors, it may control where in the brain the receptors are distributed. Ebstein suggests the vasopressin receptors in the brains of people with short AVPR1a may be distributed in such a way to make them less likely to feel rewarded by the act of giving.

Though the mechanism is unclear, Ebstein says, he is fairly sure that selfish, greedy dictatorship has a genetic component. It would be easier to confirm this if history's infamous dictators conveniently had living identical twins, he says, so we could see if they were just as ruthless as each other.
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Postby zan » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:31 pm

boomerang wrote:
zan wrote:OK..What I am saying is that you have fallen for the rhetoric and I am also telling you that there is more to it than that.....The Turks, as a whole have been crap at playing the Tpap game and have only caught up in the last few decades.....That all!!!



As for my story.....I did not say anywhere that I am the only person to have suffered Boomers and that must be evident from the fact that I said that I would like to talk to people of my age that still have dreams that they cannot explain. I just explained that mine was still unexplained until a few nights ago and I feel sorry for those that might still be going through it. It is one thing to know what you are afraid of but quite another to be afraid but have no explanation as to why. I have no memories, just fear. Now I have something to relate to. Makes me feel a little better.

You are not on your own zan...maybe you should atleast try and understand Oracle...we all suffered....and some still suffering...

As far as the "turks=fascist people" are concern. their thinking is way way outdated...just take a look at what goes on in "turkey=fascist state" today to get some dimension how backwards their thinking is...

Blaming Paps for the way the "turks=fascist people" behave is over the top... :lol:

As far as the rhetoric goes...hey I just outlined to you how "turkey's=fascist state" stance has changed and slowly and surely it this change hasn't stopped evolving...On the bright side the change is a welcome change...slow, but eventually will get there...



Understand Oracle :? :? :? I don't and will not understand anyone that promotes the "RoC" and does no research on what happened in Cyprus as her posts show.....She is taking sound bites and racist remarks and using to attempt to disrupt and or strike up a raport with other GCs...She has done neither except for those that she is in cahoots with!!!Please don't bother trying to convince me otherwise!!! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:



What is outdated!!! Tpaps ways were the ones that were outdated and they have been exposed by both those that don't think like him any more and more to the point, those that do. They have taken him out of the public eye but I am still not convinced that his ways have been taken out of the "RoC" manifesto. You really need to read up on Tpaps history before you ask me to chose him above Turkey or even Hitler for that matter. The man has been meddling in Cyprus politics since the 50's and has been persecuting TCs all through that period to now.


There is no slowing down of Turkeys attempts to bring about a just solution to Cyprus.......Things have changed and she has changed along with them...Sometimes a bit slow for my liking but now they have realised that they have to be in it to win it and that is fine by me. We as TCs have also evolved and Turkey has no option but to listen to our needs more as well. We are forming a much better partnership with them and are in a better position than ever. Tpap helped greatly with his intransigence.....At least we have to thank him for that. Nothing is ever perfect Boomers and we have had more than our fair share of problems to deal with but the OXI on the Annan Plan has made us work together and that can only be a good thing.
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Postby zan » Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:41 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...the interlocutors have other reasons for their interest in this island...

We are the island dwellers, this is our home, and we love this land.

zan without wanting to repeat myself, your dependance on TPap for your mantra is no different to a GC who would have, as his/her talice, Denktash. you can repeat it all the time over and over again and again and you will alawaays be right. And although TPap is an exquisite barrister, to have caused you so much pain, Denktash, equals Makarios in his skill at negociations, for over thirty(fifty) years, if not for opening the gates, one would hardly wonder what was his aim for Turkish Cypriots.

TPap, and his Government have a legacy which is far more complex than you portray. Yet we have never been closer to some sort of Partition, however he is a man who is a contemporary of the rank of men who as leaders are rarely seen in any lifetime. The debate among these men, and that includes the present leaders have surely been refined by the years and years of negociations, I trust that they are Cypriot, that it is a matter of will, of magic; to be comprehensive they are patient, they all seek perfection.

You blame TPap like the line has been drawn and it is finished. I suggest to you that a few lines, a chapter or two, about Tpap will be written in the Legacy we will leave as the dwellers: which as yet remains unwritten, as yet it remains unfinished.

Quite frankly, the boomer is a straight cookie. In 'reality' nothing is better than the 'Unitary State' which allows for one vote to each citizen where they are equal, as Individuals having Rights, under a Rule of Law. But we are communal, bicommunal by our Constitution. To be Represented as a Cypriot, as well as a Turkish Cypriot and a Greek Cypriot, it requires two levels of Government. (a Federal Government, Two National Assemblies: three governing authorities) or a Unitary State as one Government and communal chambers.

But...boomer, not unlike OP, and bill, are the white folk of the western world, this is all bullshit experimention in social engineering they might say, and it is true, they see it, for what it is, and say it, out loud.

...None of us are far apart however, because in truth we are all white folk, with the time to write to each other in English. So i'm with them, and in any other Modern Country Turkish Cypriots would hold the balance of power in any Government by being a Minority. Needless to say reforms to the Constitution must be made. Provision for Turkish Cypriot self-representation with reciprocal rights for Greek Cypriots, (so that they can sustain these elements in Cypriot culture), can be made.

On the other hand, I believe my proposal is the ultimate Solution under the circumstances.


I think ther will always be two eulogies written of Tpap and if there is not then I will take writting lessons to make sure there is :wink:

The man has achieved nothing but death and destruction with his aim being the Megali idea....He just wishes to be part of that idea and a Greek god in the eyes of Hellenics.....You may see that as an honourable goal but I and millions more do not...



RW, any plan that involves the mass movement and social engineering of a people that have had that done to them at the point of a gun for too long, wilkl always get the red light from me.....No more mass movement of people. Money talks in other spheres so let it talk here. Let ALL guilty parties pay and lets get on with our lives...No more experiments...Lets sign on the dotted line.
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sun Apr 06, 2008 10:16 pm

zan, i respect your opinion because it is honest and it is clear. The world looses Cyprus, a place where Cypriots have lived from the advent of Humanity. It gains nothing better. Are you suggesting that the Turkish Army should pay for the lives and the living lost of one third of the island's population? Do you think that the plunder of this island will abate with its division into two mutually exclusive parts? And the 'point of a gun' will that end too?

there is mass movements in my Cyprus, true. People who choose to return to their homes as communities and settlers who choose to live as Citizens, into places they can call homes instead of houses. at a great cost, and with suffering both societies demonstrate the humility of having Grace, as well as the will to pursue their own happiness. most importantly this payment of money and blood, for the Freedom they gain from their own sacrifice assures that as Cypriots we remain distinct as a People, as a State, representing ourselves as the island dwellers, placing the interests of the island first.

in any case, you get what you pay for.

ps. i don't care for many political leaders (although i recognise that it is a very tough job), George Bush is another leader where similar eulogies will be written.
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