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RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby zan » Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:32 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:zan, i respect your opinion because it is honest and it is clear. The world looses Cyprus, a place where Cypriots have lived from the advent of Humanity. It gains nothing better. Are you suggesting that the Turkish Army should pay for the lives and the living lost of one third of the island's population? Do you think that the plunder of this island will abate with its division into two mutually exclusive parts? And the 'point of a gun' will that end too?

there is mass movements in my Cyprus, true. People who choose to return to their homes as communities and settlers who choose to live as Citizens, into places they can call homes instead of houses. at a great cost, and with suffering both societies demonstrate the humility of having Grace, as well as the will to pursue their own happiness. most importantly this payment of money and blood, for the Freedom they gain from their own sacrifice assures that as Cypriots we remain distinct as a People, as a State, representing ourselves as the island dwellers, placing the interests of the island first.

in any case, you get what you pay for.

ps. i don't care for many political leaders (although i recognise that it is a very tough job), George Bush is another leader where similar eulogies will be written.


I am saying that Cypriots and Turkey and Greece should pay...Why did you single out Turkey?

The Turkish Cypriot people are responsible for the North and the only reason that Turkey is all powerful in the eyes of the GCs is because we as TCs have had no other viable options. We owe a great deal to Turkey and we also have a problem with them. We need to iron out those problems but never forget what they did for us. That is legacy and we will deal with it.


The reason this property issue is still a big problem is because of politics and nothing else. If the politicians had left the people to sell or not sell or even swap then the problem would be so small that it would not matter in a solution. It was the "RoC" government that lied to it's people and told them that it was illegal to do either...It lied because it could not pass the law and still have the world convinced that it represented the whole of the Cypriot people. Any way...That to one side....


Why do you see the TCs living in the North as plundering the country. We will live as Cypriots in our own areas whether it is as partners of a single country or as two separate states. You have your immigrants and we have ours....I think at the last count you have about a 100,000 more than we do. We will evolve and take from them parts of their culture, as you have done in the South, and instill in them parts of ours. The Cypriot that some are trying to sell us on this forum is just a myth and those times have gone...We look at the humble donkey as a protected species now and not as the preverbal work horse that it used to be...We are no longer poor farmers and Cyprus is not the idyllic escape from the 20th century that it was. It is a thriving 21st century island with all the mod cons. We need to keep moving forward and not back into cantons and minorities because all that has changed if not never existed. All that needs to change is the constitution....
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Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:50 am

Cyprus like the proverbial cypriot donkey, is being shot for sport and left to rot where they stood.

with all the wrongs that happened to all of us, your points are well taken, but any outcome will involve some suffering on one side or both, what is to be gained from All the suffering, can it be sustained?

If the Turkish Army was seen to pay for its illegal occupation of this land to those which were displaced, it would be a step further. I agree under these terms, if it were agreed upon, it would necessarily be reciprocated in kind by the GC's for their acts in the '60s, and by Greece and Britain. That would be good, after there was a Commission, which sought out the whole truth, dating back to 1950, which has the power to condem the Criminals amongst us, with all the missing explained,

My main concern, without real and tangible considerations and effect, whichare fair because they are expidited, and seen to be fair because they are expidited quickly, your proposal will fail, with violence along the border a step toward the guerrilla warfare this little island spawned (talk about mems:LOL).

sacrafice, you cannot get away from its worth. Turkey as you well know works out very little when placed as an adversary, as has always been the case, there is no way if it is not her way, your society will never be free of this subjugation, leaving the opening for other proxy wars with Greece at her calling. i at least ask for suffering and compassion from all the island dwellers in one effort to create a better state of things, having the most reward to those, this time at least, who will/have suffer(ed) the most.
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Postby zan » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:58 am

repulsewarrior wrote:Cyprus like the proverbial cypriot donkey, is being shot for sport and left to rot where they stood.

with all the wrongs that happened to all of us, your points are well taken, but any outcome will involve some suffering on one side or both, what is to be gained from All the suffering, can it be sustained?

If the Turkish Army was seen to pay for its illegal occupation of this land to those which were displaced, it would be a step further. I agree under these terms, if it were agreed upon, it would necessarily be reciprocated in kind by the GC's for their acts in the '60s, and by Greece and Britain. That would be good, after there was a Commission, which sought out the whole truth, dating back to 1950, which has the power to condem the Criminals amongst us, with all the missing explained,

My main concern, without real and tangible considerations and effect, whichare fair because they are expidited, and seen to be fair because they are expidited quickly, your proposal will fail, with violence along the border a step toward the guerrilla warfare this little island spawned (talk about mems:LOL).

sacrafice, you cannot get away from its worth. Turkey as you well know works out very little when placed as an adversary, as has always been the case, there is no way if it is not her way, your society will never be free of this subjugation, leaving the opening for other proxy wars with Greece at her calling. i at least ask for suffering and compassion from all the island dwellers in one effort to create a better state of things, having the most reward to those, this time at least, who will/have suffer(ed) the most.


The payments should be made in unison RW as should the responsibility of guilt....There is the on going siege of the TCs to take into account as well.

As far as suffering goes...You are adding to what is already there and taking nothing away with your proposal.

I watched a Panorama program last night about the on going difficulties faced by the Irish in spite of a peace agreement...Still there is high fencing and stones being thrown. Still there is segregation and intimidation. Still there are no go areas for each side. Those interviewed could see no end to it. I would rather a defined retreat for us than a constant battle when surrounded. Good intentions are not the only thing needed here but good and mature thinking. Same goes for compensation.....I would be happy with the market rate for my land and not the greedy demands made by some that have been fueled by politics. Peace is being priced out of the market.
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Re: RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

Postby alexISS » Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:08 pm

GreekForumer wrote:RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

"GCs will accept any TC community right if, and only if, the Kurds of Turkey can also claim the EXACT same right."

The beauty of this plan is twofold.

1. The GCs are COMPLETELY out of the loop. You cannot claim the GCs are being unfair because they are not negotiating these rights. TCs and mainland Turks can negotiate what these rights are.

2. Fairness. You cannot ask something of one community that your own community is not willing to accept. Surely ??


That's a great idea, but it could never happen for a single reason. The international community does not have the same expectations from Greece and Turkey regarding human rights. Greece is an EU member and is naturally expected to be miles "ahead" of Turkey. Unfortunately, that works against us but I'd rather live with it than trade places with Turkey. Greek and Greek Cypriot diplomacy aims at a feasible, not fair, solution. It's either this or no solution at all.
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Re: RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

Postby Oracle » Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:15 pm

alexISS wrote: .... Greek and Greek Cypriot diplomacy aims at a feasible, not fair, solution. It's either this or no solution at all.


To be feasible a solution would be judged as to its acceptability by the majority of people. We already have disharmony arising from accepting that as a basis for finding a "feasible" solution.

By looking at "fairness" you can attach objective mathematical logic to reason out a solution ... It is a more detached way of arriving at a solution. Direct comparisons of like-with-like. Areas of Land, numbers of people .....

Feasibility or practicality of a solution can be so unfair that it nullifies the basis of Human Rights ....

After all, it's feasible / practical to demand that all the TCs leave with the Turks ... but this would not be fair.
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Re: RECIPROCAL COMMUNITY RIGHTS PLAN

Postby alexISS » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:39 pm

Oracle wrote:
alexISS wrote: .... Greek and Greek Cypriot diplomacy aims at a feasible, not fair, solution. It's either this or no solution at all.


To be feasible a solution would be judged as to its acceptability by the majority of people. We already have disharmony arising from accepting that as a basis for finding a "feasible" solution.

By looking at "fairness" you can attach objective mathematical logic to reason out a solution ... It is a more detached way of arriving at a solution. Direct comparisons of like-with-like. Areas of Land, numbers of people .....

Feasibility or practicality of a solution can be so unfair that it nullifies the basis of Human Rights ....

After all, it's feasible / practical to demand that all the TCs leave with the Turks ... but this would not be fair.


You can be certain that if the Cypriot government were to propose this solution plan and draw a red line, the "TRNC" would be recognized by every single country except Greece and the RoC in 24 hours. So, if your only options are to either negotiate an unfair solution or have an even more unfair solution imposed on you, you'd better choose the first
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Postby zan » Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:58 pm

Hopba!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby alexISS » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:18 pm

zan wrote:Hopba!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Zan,
I'm not sure what "Hopba" means, but if you're celebrating the fact that your big brother Turkey secured you an over privileged status in the post solution RoC you should not forget that it's the Greek Cypriots you're gonna end up living with, not the Turks :wink:
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Postby zan » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:24 pm

alexISS wrote:
zan wrote:Hopba!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Zan,
I'm not sure what "Hopba" means, but if you're celebrating the fact that your big brother Turkey secured you an over privileged status in the post solution RoC you should not forget that it's the Greek Cypriots you're gonna end up living with, not the Turks :wink:


There is nothing over privileged about being master in my own home alexISS.....Together with my cousins the GCs. :roll:
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Postby alexISS » Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:59 pm

zan wrote:
alexISS wrote:
zan wrote:Hopba!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Zan,
I'm not sure what "Hopba" means, but if you're celebrating the fact that your big brother Turkey secured you an over privileged status in the post solution RoC you should not forget that it's the Greek Cypriots you're gonna end up living with, not the Turks :wink:


There is nothing over privileged about being master in my own home alexISS.....Together with my cousins the GCs. :roll:

There is if you are the master of more houses than the ones that are yours zan. I believe, however, that no matter how unfair the solution will be to the GCs, when the Cypriots will be finally left alone to rule themselves, all the peculiarities and oddities of the agreed solution plan will become obsolete as the everyday life will force a normalization
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