Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

Which method is "more" fair ?

Where there are two communites I think one community one vote is both compatible with democratic ideas and also 'more fair' than one person one vote - which allows for the domination of one community by another.

[metecyp]

Which method is "more" fair ?

Fair in what sense? Is it, for example, fair for TCs to be dominated by GCs for the sake of one-man one-vote? Isn't it also fair for TCs to ask for protections from the majority? What defines fairness? The majority's will?

[Piratis]

We obviously see democracy in different ways. This is way "the solution" provides a way for all to be satsified:

Cyprus is split into the "GC country" made by the the 78% of the ground. Within this state the GCs can have what is ideal for them: majority rule, democracy, one parliament etc.

In the other 22%, the "North country" will be made by 2 equal communities. 82% of TCs and 18% of GCs. The GCs will have their own federal state made by the 29% of the "north country" land, political equality and everything else that the TCs would have in a "united" Cyprus under the Annan plan.

Now, who has a problem with that? GCs get what they want, TCs get what they want. right?

[Agios Amvrosios]

compatible with GC and TC sharing control of their shared homeland

What part of this ideal gave TC's the right to ethnically exclude all Maronites,Armenians and GC's from Kyrenia? It is just a subterfuge for a land grab.

So by your "sharing" you expect us to completely abandon our ethnic identity as Kyrenians. My parents have no connection with any other part of Cyprus but you are saying that "sharing" power means my generation born overseas in a cultural no-man's land , we must forget any traces of ancestral identity.

If this is your definition of "sharing" I would hate to see your definition of domination.

[BigDutch]

Where there are two communites I think one community one vote is both compatible with democratic ideas and also 'more fair' than one person one vote - which allows for the domination of one community by another.

If a country with two major communities was "split" into say 10 regions (with each region getting 2 seats at the table). Some regions may bring 2 seats of community (A) and others could bring 2 seats of community (B) depending on the population make up in the region. The end result would surely be a proportional mix of communities around the table.

Fair in what sense? Is it, for example, fair for TCs to be dominated by GCs for the sake of one-man one-vote? Isn't it also fair for TCs to ask for protections from the majority? What defines fairness? The majority's will?

I didn't mention TC's or GC's, just which method was "more" fair in terms of the people's power of who is in "control" of their "destiny"

Forgetting communities - which system would you feel more comfortable with ?

PS. What amazes me is that you expect all TC's and GC's would only vote for other "purebloods" from their own community !? Without even knowing what the various parties manifestos will include !?

[erolz]

What part of this ideal gave TC's the right to ethnically exclude all Maronites,Armenians and GC's from Kyrenia? It is just a subterfuge for a land grab.

You are confusing cause with effect. The loss of access to Kyrenia as a potnetial place of residence for GC is an _effect_ of GC denail of this 'idea' (also the legal basis of the RoC) for 11 years _prior_ to this loss to GC. It's a stange world where the effect pre dates the cause by 11 years !

So by your "sharing" you expect us to completely abandon our ethnic identity as Kyrenians. My parents have no connection with any other part of Cyprus but you are saying that "sharing" power means my generation born overseas in a cultural no-man's land , we must forget any traces of ancestral identity.

I expect no such thing. Under the Anann plan you could have lived in Kyrenia. Under any solution that accepts the principal of one community on vote you can live in Kyrenia. What caused you 'excile' from Kyrenia was a GC refusal to accept any 'sharing' Cyprus with TC. What continues your excile today is your continued refusal to share (politicaly) Cyprus with TC.

If this is your definition of "sharing" I would hate to see your definition of domination.

And we lived through 'your' idea of sharing in the period 63-74.

[erolz]

Forgetting communities - which system would you feel more comfortable with ?

Well forgetting 'communites' is like saying - forgetting the situation in Cyprus and forgetting that one community historical tried to impose it's will on the other with illegal methods and violence and force.

Weather each approach is fair or not depends on the situation - as far as I am concerned. In a senario with a history of oppression between one group and another and of different groups having diametricaly opposed wishes and wants (for the fate of the _other_ group as well as themselevs)then eqaulity of these groups seems fair and necessary. In a senario with no such history then there seems little need for the defintion of 'groups' at all.

Your question is comparable to asking do I think devolution of power to a scottish executive is fair in a UK that has no scotland - at least from where I am sitting - and is about as worthwhile as a question.

PS. What amazes me is that you expect all TC's and GC's would only vote for other "purebloods" from their own community !? Without even knowing what the various parties manifestos will include !?

I do not expect this but it remains a concern and a possibility. The history of Cyprus is one where the desires of GC were totaly opposed to those of TC. There is more than enough reason to fear such senarios again in a future united Cyprus with no 'protections' for one community over the other as far as I am concerned. These fears are in my view neither irrational or unfounded.

[Agios Amvrosios]

We do not call ourselves Cypriots as Americans call themselves Americans in the whole USA

Most GCs call themselves Cypriots regardless of whether they are from the free or occupied part of Cyprus.

Insisting on any form of ethnic division is simply racist no matter how many years you lie to yourself.

There is one human race, one European Union and one Cyprus.

[garbitsch]

Most T.Cs call themselves Cypriot, not to mention the nation they belong to, but as people from the island of Cyprus. Of course being a citizen of Cyprus (either federal or RoC) will entitle us as Cypriot, but not all British call themselves British, i.e. the Scottish still call themselves Scottish not British.

[turkcyp]

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