Birkibrisli wrote:Piratis wrote:Birkibrisli, I 100% agree with you. In all my posts I accept the share of responsibility of my community in the events of the 50s and 60s. I have
never denied that innocent TCs suffered and that some 100s of them were killed during the inter-communal conflict. Furthermore, I do not demand that TCs should be punished for the crimes they committed against us in the past.
What I want, just like you, is finally an end to the crimes and illegalities and to have a truly united Cyprus with equal Cypriot citizens and no racist discriminations.
On the contrary, people like Zan have remained stuck in their partition dream of the 50s. They keep talking about their own suffering in the 60s, and they refuse to admit that they have also caused to us suffering, not just in that one decade in the 60s but also before and after it. They do this because what they want is not reconciliation and peace, but they are trying to find excuses for the continuation of their crimes against us.
I just wonder if out of the 7500 posts of Zan there is even a single post where he admits the crimes and suffering they have caused to us. Somebody reading his posts would think that Cypriots had imported Turkish slaves during the slave era and were abusing them ever since until Turkey came to save them.
I agree,Piratis,that Zan needs a reality check. He did start rather promisingly from what I remember,but his position has hardened over the years. So much so that what he now says is straight out of R.R.Denktash's propaganda handbook...
But let me criticise you a bit as well. What I want is what you want,a fully democratic Cyprus,based fully and solely on human rights and equal opportunity principles,one-vote-one value,and impartiality of the justice system. But what we want is not going to happen in a hurry,given our tragic past. By not compromising on your ideal solution,you as much as Zan,are responsible for the present situation. (When I say YOU it is plural,includes everyone who finds compromising impossible to do.) If you soften your stand and accept that a lot of groundwork must be done before the TCs will even consider a Unitary State without ethnic considerations,then you will open some ground for constructive dialog.Your 'you killed more than we did,we suffered more than you did' approach only drives the likes or Zan to Turkey's arms. They would rather become "Turkified" than risk putting their fate in the GC community's hands,especially if they believe their suffering has not been seriously acknowledged.Don't forget that in Cyprus there is a government fully made up of GC members,and some (17?) seats empty,reserved for the TC members...Where are the efforts to get these seats filled by TC members,and return to full constitutional order???Where are the efforts to foster trust and respect between the two communities? By insisting on solutions that seem "extreme" to the other side we are all contributing to the burning of our motherland...
My my!!!! There are some arrogant sods on this forum but you take the bisquit
Who the hell do you think you are and did somebody die to leave you king???I started off promisingly????When were you the one allowed to draw where the line is and the rest of us have to follow?
I have read and reread.......I have discussed and thought and though about he Cyprob and come up with a conclusion....If my findings are the same as Denktas' then that is life. The main thing is that there is to be a solution and I am fighting my corner in the face of opposition like that of Tpap. There are some here like MY TCB (True Cypriot Brother) in the shape of Bananiot that are trying to correct the wrongs that exist as in getting rid of Tpap and hoping that the new person will show the way. Apart from asking for the simple and impossible as in just turning back the clock so that you can have your nostalgic Cyprus back you have said nothing but emotional and sentimental claptrap. You want to cruelly expel people that have been living there as TCs for decades to satisfy the twisted thinking of Greek nationalists when Europe is integrating at a great pace. AND, that is your entire plan
You ignore the fact that they stole the island from under our noses and that is the most significant factor of our persecution in all of this.
The reality check is for you my friend...I have seen the reality in the last two years and it is you that is living in cuckoo land. I have told you that we have the same dream but only one of us seems to have woken up to the fact hat going forward is a practical problem and that dreams should be put to one side. As for putting the blame for what is happening on my shoulders.........I have only been in the business of politics for two years.....I think the problem has been going on for a bit longer than that don't you think
I have merely analysed the the situation and come up with a way to get past it. I have discovered how many people have worked on the Annan Plan and how many of them were actually Cypriot and how hard they worked and how it was sabotaged by Tpap and his ilk.......Tpap is not on his own or here simply would not be a Tpap...The system that he works in must be destroyed and that is the answer to the intransigence that you want out of the way in order for us to be able to move on and you think that that is going to come about because you talk nicely to him.......We have sat with our tails between our legs for decades and what have we achieved????????We as the people I mean......We have wanted Unity with all our hearts and we put our faith in the system and the outside forces that exist and where has hat gotten us......It is only now that the TC people have started to demand what is rightfully theirs that the GCs have sat up and said...Hold on...Denktas is not the only person to be saying these things but he entire TC nation is so maybe we need to do something about it. These people are not as stupid as we thought and we HAVE been fed lies and corruption in our schools. These are the things hat ae beginning to open their eyes to our plight and is cutting through the GC propaganda that has existed for years.
So you want us to sit about like we have done since 1963 waiting for fairness to find us....I am a little more impatient and realistic in that quest and in targeting the problems that exist on the other side maybe even help those that want a solution to get the likes of Tpap out of office and then appeal to those people instead. The world has not listened to your cause and plight for all these years and have even contributed to our misery because they did not understand what really went on because of Greek propaganda and tricks and now that they finally are because we are demanding what is ours and what they promised we are still in the wrong?????? I really don't understand the way you think and what you think constitutes a settlement. You have mentioned a few things here in your address to Piratis but how we get there seems to be a massive void in your strategy.
What you seem to be saying and is what I have been saying is that we need to talk and you find that offensive......We are at a point in time and it seems that how we got here is very important. The GC people, just like any other normal people, want reasons and hey have been fed the wrong reasons for years. What is wrong in pointing that out...It can only go to work against those that do not want a fair solution....
You seem to want to give to whims that are just not practical or humane just to score points with the GCs and placate their fears.......How about just being practical for a change and treating them like adults...The reality of the situation is going to hit them hard otherwise.....There are losses and problems that are just not solvable by trying to turn back the clock and the mass movement and expulsion of people just because they really do not belong to the "Great Cypriot Nation" is just not going to happen and if it does then I will stop being a Cypriot from that day on...If we cannot find a way of being humane to ALL on this then I will be ashamed to call myself a Cypriot and you can have it all to yourself. Bowing to sentimental pressure is your weakness and should not be allowed to spoil our islands history once more and make us look like Nazi uncaring selfish bastards that have caused the situation and hen when we have had our fill we put these people on a plane and send them back to somewhere they don't call home.
Lets start these negotiations with a touch of reality and they may not break down when it hits them in the face. Your wishes and whims are not the driving force of a people Bir and they should not be either. My hard stance in all this is because of that. I know that things and business is not done like that and those that do soon come unstuck. Practicality and reason has to win he day or the day will never come. There is a place for it in that the situation that Tpap has masterminded is not based on morality but law and that that law has been manipulated to a point that is immoral.
It is not wrong to ask for what is rightfully yours and if faced with a wall of intransigence and diabolic demands then to demand them. There is no propaganda in what I say but telling the truth about our history and then quantifying the situation and the deviousness of of the people we are trying to do business with is not counterproductive as you seem to think. It means that if they want a solution then they are dealing with equal partners and a competent people and we are not people to be walked over. The fact that I try to cut through their propaganda and explain this to them is nothing I am ashamed of. Allowing these people to attack Turkey and bypass want the TCS are saying is playing into their propaganda hands. Why should I want to help them in that way when their aims are quite clear.
You seem to have some ego problems in thinking you alone know the way and that the TCs don't know what they are taking about and are not able to make their own decisions....I asked you before and I will ask you again.......At what point did you lose hope that a Turk ,as in mainland or Cypriot, can ever make the right decision again and that we have to leave that to the GCs to make for us....I understand that many people of your age did have that in the old days but we are not like that any more...Your nostalgia has to be put to one side and a more practical future has to be found mate.......Get your head out of he clouds and your ego and listen to your people. They know what they want and how they have been made to suffer all these years. They are the ones that have had heir lives put on hold and have only since the OXI on the Annan Plan started to move forward again.....I can't help it if that has spooked the GCs. They should have thought of that before the OXI and even now should look to the person hat persuaded them to say OXI in he first place and not blame the TCs. We cannot and will not sit around waiting any more.......The Embargoes have to go and the cloud over my peoples head has to be lifted.
