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Postby Piratis » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:36 pm

observer, what actually happened is that you wanted to partition our island and to ethnically cleanse us from the north part of our country since the 50s.

In 1974 Turkey ethnically cleansed Greek Cypriots from the north part of Cyprus, and TCs went to to the north to realize their dream of partition but also to grab twice as much than what they left behind.

Ethnic cleansing is about the forceful displacement of an ethnic population from a particular area, and this is what happened with Greek Cypriots. In the case of Turkish Cypriots it was their own dream to cut Cyprus in two and move in the north part, nobody forced this on them. So cut the crap.
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Postby boomerang » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:43 pm

observer wrote:Boomerang
Using more realistic language, GCs were expelled from the North, TCs were expelled from the South.


Ah, the head working stronger than the heart? It often gets better results. I think it was Aesop (a Greek!) who wrote a story about the sun having a competition with the wind. If you don't know it, you can probably google it to find out who got the better results and why.


No wonder it's so hard to reach an agreement...the spin never finishes does it observer...

Telling the europeans something and them believing you, actually laughing at you is a different story...

Explain to me the Loizidou case again?...and tell me how many tcs took the RoC to court and actually won the case?

PS...I like your strategy though, I just wonder as to why you never actually voiced this to the ECHR...
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Postby observer » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:50 pm

The point is it wasn't up to turkey to decide by way of force...Turkey was a guarantor...And this why we had guarantors...in case shit hit the fan as it did...


Personally, turkey made a blunder...It would have been a different story had turkey stood by her signature...wouldn't you agree?



Post coup and invasion, a lot of personal and official rewriting of history happened.

You can not rerun history, but what would have happened if the coup had succeeded. A lot more GCs were at least passively in favour of it than it is now popular to admit to. With strong Greek support, it could well have succeeded. It didn't collapse until 3 days after the invasion, when Greek support turned out to be a hollow shell - but few would have thought that at the time.

Legally, Turkey had every right, by treaty, to intervene (and probably had the right since 1963) Morally, If the coup had succeeded, the life of TCs on Cyprus would have been a very unhappy one. Perhaps more importantly for Turkey, it would have been ringed by potentially hostile countries. And finally, the Turkish government stood a real chance of being toppled, either by the military in the short term, or at the ballot box in slightly longer term. The Turkish government really had very little option but to intervene, especially after Greece had been intervening for so long.

If their was an error, it was either by the British rescuing Makarios (I have never understood why) or by Makarios tearing up what little prospect there was of a GC-TC agreement to a BBF (or whatever would have finally been agreed) on his return to Cyprus. There is more than enough blame to go around all the leaders at this time, so don't think that I am putting it 100% on Makarios, but he was the principle block immediately post-74, and from there on positions became more solid.
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Postby observer » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:55 pm

Piratis
observer, what actually happened is that you wanted to partition our island and to ethnically cleanse us from the north part of our country since the 50s.

In 1974 Turkey ethnically cleansed Greek Cypriots from the north part of Cyprus, and TCs went to to the north to realize their dream of partition but also to grab twice as much than what they left behind.

Ethnic cleansing is about the forceful displacement of an ethnic population from a particular area, and this is what happened with Greek Cypriots. In the case of Turkish Cypriots it was their own dream to cut Cyprus in two and move in the north part, nobody forced this on them. So cut the crap.


It's difficult to work out, when so much information is freely available, whether or not this is some sort of sad joke.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:57 pm

They invade and steal our land and then they say that the problem was Makarios because he didn't immediently sign a capitulation agreement so they could legally keep what they took by force. What a joke!
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Postby Piratis » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:00 pm

It's difficult to work out, when so much information is freely available, whether or not this is some sort of sad joke.


And your information doesn't tell you that TCs where demanding partition since the 50s?

What was the demand of partition? Wasn't it our ethnic cleansing from the north part of our country so the TCs could move there and have their own separate country?

Yes the information is there and supports by 100% what I say.
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Postby Kifeas » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:01 pm

observer wrote: Legally, Turkey had every right, by treaty, to intervene (and probably had the right since 1963) Morally, If the coup had succeeded, the life of TCs on Cyprus would have been a very unhappy one. Perhaps more importantly for Turkey, it would have been ringed by potentially hostile countries. And finally, the Turkish government stood a real chance of being toppled, either by the military in the short term, or at the ballot box in slightly longer term. The Turkish government really had very little option but to intervene, especially after Greece had been intervening for so long.

If their was an error, it was either by the British rescuing Makarios (I have never understood why) or by Makarios tearing up what little prospect there was of a GC-TC agreement to a BBF (or whatever would have finally been agreed) on his return to Cyprus. There is more than enough blame to go around all the leaders at this time, so don't think that I am putting it 100% on Makarios, but he was the principle block immediately post-74, and from there on positions became more solid.


I won't comment on anything else from the rest of your otherwise totally rubbish views, apart from letting you know that the Turkish invasion was illegal, as it was in violation of the UN Charter! There is no legal basis on Turkey's invasion, and any unilateral intervention closure in the 1960 treaty of guarantee is simply and squarely overruled by the provisions of the UN Charter (article 103,) which prohibit military intervention into the territory of another UN member country by anyone other country, without prior approval by the UN Security Council (Chapter I, articles 2-4 of the UN Charter!)

The Turkish invasion was illegal, besides the 33 years of illegal Turkish occupation of 36% of Cyprus, full stop!!! Read the UN Charter!!!
Last edited by Kifeas on Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby boomerang » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:02 pm

observer wrote:
The point is it wasn't up to turkey to decide by way of force...Turkey was a guarantor...And this why we had guarantors...in case shit hit the fan as it did...


Personally, turkey made a blunder...It would have been a different story had turkey stood by her signature...wouldn't you agree?



Post coup and invasion, a lot of personal and official rewriting of history happened.

You can not rerun history, but what would have happened if the coup had succeeded. A lot more GCs were at least passively in favour of it than it is now popular to admit to. With strong Greek support, it could well have succeeded. It didn't collapse until 3 days after the invasion, when Greek support turned out to be a hollow shell - but few would have thought that at the time.

Legally, Turkey had every right, by treaty, to intervene (and probably had the right since 1963) Morally, If the coup had succeeded, the life of TCs on Cyprus would have been a very unhappy one. Perhaps more importantly for Turkey, it would have been ringed by potentially hostile countries. And finally, the Turkish government stood a real chance of being toppled, either by the military in the short term, or at the ballot box in slightly longer term. The Turkish government really had very little option but to intervene, especially after Greece had been intervening for so long.

If their was an error, it was either by the British rescuing Makarios (I have never understood why) or by Makarios tearing up what little prospect there was of a GC-TC agreement to a BBF (or whatever would have finally been agreed) on his return to Cyprus. There is more than enough blame to go around all the leaders at this time, so don't think that I am putting it 100% on Makarios, but he was the principle block immediately post-74, and from there on positions became more solid.


Turkey as a guarantor power had the right to intervene...I am not arguing this...But only to re-instate the constitution and nothing else...Makarios and everyone else had nothing to do with it...

This is why we had guarantors...Whats the point of having guarantors in anycase?

And now with the now defunct Annan plan, turkey wanted the same rights...you do not see anything wrong here?
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Postby observer » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:06 pm

Boomerang
tcs were given a choice...they left on their own accord...I would have done the same don't get me wrong but they had a choice...
The gcs either way you look at it didn't have a choice...and after the agreement you did your best, not you personally, to eradicated them...
So please do not compare apples and oranges...


With villages being slaughtered, with detention camps for TCs, and with the enclaves threatened, it's an odd sort of choice.

I know that you can point to the handfull of TCs who remained and are living in the South, as we can point to the handfull who remained and are living in the North, but for most, GC and TC, their belief was go, or stay and be killed.
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Postby boomerang » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:11 pm

observer wrote:Boomerang
tcs were given a choice...they left on their own accord...I would have done the same don't get me wrong but they had a choice...
The gcs either way you look at it didn't have a choice...and after the agreement you did your best, not you personally, to eradicated them...
So please do not compare apples and oranges...


With villages being slaughtered, with detention camps for TCs, and with the enclaves threatened, it's an odd sort of choice.

I know that you can point to the handfull of TCs who remained and are living in the South, as we can point to the handfull who remained and are living in the North, but for most, GC and TC, their belief was go, or stay and be killed.


If they were in detension centers how do you explain the packing of all of their belongins?

And another point out of the tcs that stay, had they had any harm to them?...what about the gcs...how many decided to stay in 74, and how many are left today?
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