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TALKS ARE DUE TO START WITH THE EU ON ADAPTATION

Benefits and problems from the EU membership.

Postby observer » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:13 pm

Boomerang
Turkey as a guarantor power had the right to intervene...I am not arguing this...But only to re-instate the constitution and nothing else...Makarios and everyone else had nothing to do with it...

This is why we had guarantors...Whats the point of having guarantors in anycase?

And now with the now defunct Annan plan, turkey wanted the same rights...you do not see anything wrong here?


Legally, you are perfectly right.

Realistically, with the leaders of both communities telling them (and the other guarantors) that the 1960 constitution was dead and buried, and that they would negotiate a new one, what was Turkey to do? Go out into the fields and find a GC who wanted to be President, and a TC who wanted to be Vice-President and leave them to it?

If I remember that section of the A Plan, Turkey wanted to retain the right until it entered the EU. I saw little chance of Turkey repeating '74, or even wanting to. But retaining it as an additional reason for the EU to want Turkey to join the club ... good politics, if rather obvious.
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Postby Kifeas » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:15 pm

observer wrote:Boomerang
tcs were given a choice...they left on their own accord...I would have done the same don't get me wrong but they had a choice...
The gcs either way you look at it didn't have a choice...and after the agreement you did your best, not you personally, to eradicated them...
So please do not compare apples and oranges...


With villages being slaughtered, with detention camps for TCs, and with the enclaves threatened, it's an odd sort of choice.

I know that you can point to the handfull of TCs who remained and are living in the South, as we can point to the handfull who remained and are living in the North, but for most, GC and TC, their belief was go, or stay and be killed.


You mean in 1974, the GCs started slaughtering TC villages and setting up detention camps for them, that is why Turkey had to invade in order to save them? Which Turkish Hollywood movie is that in which you saw this? Or have you just dreamed about it? What a crap little story, indeed!
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Postby Kifeas » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:18 pm

boomerang wrote: Turkey as a guarantor power had the right to intervene...I am not arguing this...But only to re-instate the constitution and nothing else...Makarios and everyone else had nothing to do with it...



I beg you pardon, boomerang, but, will you stop talking nonesense! Where did you see that Turkey had the right to intervene? Is this what the UN Charter says?
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Postby observer » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:25 pm

Wow! Three of you, but I'll do my best

Kifeas "You mean in 1974, the GCs started slaughtering TC villages and setting up detention camps for them, that is why Turkey had to invade in order to save them? Which Turkish Hollywood movie is that in which you saw this? Or have you just dreamed about it? What a crap little story, indeed!"

No. I mean that there was a Greek backed coup, which enjoyed much more support than is now admitted to. It stood a very real chance of success, in which case TCs would have good reason to fear for their lives. The coup leader admitted this.

Turkey intervened for a number of reasons which I have explained above. Following the Turkish intervention TC villages were slaughtered and detention centres for TCs were set up, well away from any Turkish Army fighting, making it a strong possibility that preparations to carry out Sampsons threats were going ahead whether or not the Turkish Army arrived.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:26 pm

observer, the only ones who are saying that the 1960 agreements are dead and burried are the Turks.

Secondly, there was no TC killed in 1974 until after Turkey with the colaboration of TCs invaded our island and started to kill Greek Cypriots by the 1000s and ethnically cleansing us from the north part of our country. And even then, your losses were about 200 people, a way smaller amount in comparison with the losses you caused to us.

Regarding if Turkey had the right to invade, it didn't. As Kifeas said the UN Charter overwrites any "agreement" that was forced on Cypriots. But even if we overlook this huge point, those agreements state explicitly that the "sole aim" of any action by the "Guarantors" should be to "guarantee the independence, territorial integrity and security of the Republic of Cyprus". So Turkey with its invasion has actually violated the treaty of guarantee, since it acted in the exact opposite way than the one agreed in that treaty.
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Postby boomerang » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:27 pm

Kifeas wrote:
boomerang wrote: Turkey as a guarantor power had the right to intervene...I am not arguing this...But only to re-instate the constitution and nothing else...Makarios and everyone else had nothing to do with it...



I beg you pardon, boomerang, but, will you stop talking nonesense! Where did you see that Turkey had the right to intervene? Is this what the UN Charter says?


Kifeas, the 1960 gave them the right, but if this was against the UN charter, then that is a different argument altogether...
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Postby observer » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:34 pm

The 1960 constitution was lodged with the UN and is not overridden by the UN Charter. Do you think that lawyers from 4 countries and 2 communities would have overlooked that point in the months it took to draw up?

Anyway, my weekend begins now.

If you believe that all GCs were ethnically cleaned into the South, and all TCs skipped happy and dancing into the North, then there is really little hope for you.
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Postby Piratis » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:24 pm

If you believe that all GCs were ethnically cleaned into the South, and all TCs skipped happy and dancing into the North, then there is really little hope for you.


So you deny that the TCs had partition as their aim since the 50s and the way partition would be enforced was to ethnically cleanse all GCs from northern Cyprus, and then all TCs would move there to have their own separate country?

Come on observer, don't try to deny what is so well known.
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