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What Are Your Objections To 5th Annan Plan!

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:58 pm

in Article 3:
All Cypriot citizens shall also enjoy internal constituent state citizenship status.


In Article 2:
The federal government and the constituent states shall fully respect and not infringe upon the powers and functions of each other. There shall be no hierarchy between federal and constituent state laws. Any act in contravention of the Constitution shall be null and void.


In federations there are no state citizenships. In article 2 is said that United Cyprus "is modeled on the status and relationship of Switzerland". Switzerland is a confederation and not a federation. Also in federations the federal government is above the constituent states, but according to this plan it will not be.

So this "United Cyprus" will be a confederation which will be named federation. Neither we, not even the federal government will in reality have any control over the north.

If you say YES, you get this version of "partition". If you say NO you'll get the original version


If we say "yes" we will get this worst version of partition for sure.
What will happen if we say "no" is just theories and threats.

But lets assume that partition will happen anyways.
Compare the partition based on Annan plan, with a partition where it is returned to us the same amount of land, but 2 clearly separate states are created. You will see that the "original" partition is actually better than the Annan style partition.
With the exception of a small number of refugees that would return under T/C control, how is Annan style partition better than the "original" partition?

Even if the worst threats become true the worst that can happen to us is partition, which is still better than Annan plan.
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Postby Piratis » Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:18 pm

metecyp wrote:He can't quote because he hasn't read the plan. If he reads the plan, he'll understand the fine balanced structure. For example, according to the latest plan, there will be no explicit veto power for TCs, this is something that he complained a lot.


Decisions of Parliament shall require the approval of both Chambers by simple majority, including one quarter of voting Senators from each constituent state. For specified matters, a special majority of two-fifths of sitting Senators from each constituent state shall be required.


The Presidential Council shall strive to reach decisions by consensus. Where it fails to reach consensus, it shall, unless otherwise specified, take decisions by simple majority of members present and voting, provided this comprises at least one member from each constituent state.


So how exactly their is no veto power???
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Postby metecyp » Sun Apr 04, 2004 6:02 pm

So how exactly their is no veto power???

Is there a TC vice president that can veto everything? No. Of course, there'll be simple majority vote, and of course at least one TC should participate in these votings, what did you expect? You expect to make all the decisions with no TC votes, like you've been doing since 1963??
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Postby Piratis » Sun Apr 04, 2004 7:22 pm

at least one TC should participate in these votings


Even if we accept that the quotes I posted above mean this, then whenever the TC do not like something they can simply leave and not participate in the voting.
Threfore nothing can pass if T/C do not agree = veto power.
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Postby PEACE » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:41 pm

Look, we will not give up our human rights and democracy. For nobody and for nothing.
If you can deprive us from democracy and our human rights in one way or another then do it, but don't expect from us to surrender. We will not do it - NEVER.


Same things...

Now you have no human rights and no other rights in North Cyprus.(According to international law,yes you have ! )

Annan Plan has limitations in order to protect Turkish Cypriot identity on this island! This must be!

May be you are not going to take your property to live in (You will get 1/3 in Turkish Cypriot State but you will get all properties that will stay in Greek Cypriot State!) but you will get compensation because of this! So your human rights are respected !

May be you won't buy property from Turkish Cypriot State till Turkish Cypriots become ur economical level of 85%!But than you can buy!Thats a protection for Turkish Cypriot identity and human rights!

May be you can't vote for federal elections! But you can vote for local elections! This limitation is for our identity protection also!

And these so goes on!... Everyone has human rights and everyone has the right to live in democratic country! But these are not releated with democracy ! These are for our identity protection!If you think that we are monority and so minority rights have to be given than yes there is no democracy!

You can use your human rights freely and unlimited till you don't damage to other's human rights !
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Postby PEACE » Sat Apr 17, 2004 8:50 pm

I have no problem with your human rights as i said before ! But we have to accept that we have to find a solution that we won't have minority rights! I agree to give you all of your properies to live ! OK than what we will do people that are now living in that properties? You can't send them to street all! You have to build new houses for them!New towns...Who will give the money of these? Where we'll carry this towns,cities ????

I accepted to give you unlimited voting right and residence right in Turkish Cypriot State! So after this won't our state be a so-called Turkish Cypriot State that is governed by Gcs?

As you see we have to give concessions to each other ! If we want to live in peace really we have to respect to each other!

We can't reach an ideal country!We can't use our rights in order to damage other's identity or rights!When we want something we have to think what will be other side?

If you were a Turkish Cypriot what you will do?
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Postby Oneness » Mon May 17, 2004 9:18 pm

Most GC are emotionally against it, without having read the new plan, but because of the emphasis that the media has given on the fact that the turkish side is satisfied.
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Postby Piratis » Mon May 17, 2004 10:20 pm

Since we say same things, I guess there is no need to repeat them again.

If you were a Turkish Cypriot what you will do?


If I was a TC:
Since Annan plan would give me so much, and since some others say that the plan will come back again then I would wait to see if this is true and if I could get all those things promised. But soon I would realize that all those promises were fake ones. That this "perfect plan" was made to be rejected by the GC so Turkey would get what it wanted without TC revolting against her. I would realize that a true compromise from TC side should be made in order to solve the problem, and that by solving the problem in a fair way like Piratis proposed is the best I could ever get, and it is actually very good. After this, I would start working for my own interests and stop serving the interests of Turkey.
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Postby michalis5354 » Wed May 19, 2004 1:59 pm

Well now that the majority of Gcs have voted for No what is the strategy from now on? It is very important to have a real strategy that will direct us to reach a settelement within a short term time scale!

Actions speak louder than words . It is time for actions I think and not words.People are fed up with words and usless speeches. Real leaders are needed that will direct rthe country to Peace Solution and Propserity. Lots need to be done but no one makes the first STEP.
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Postby michalis5354 » Wed May 19, 2004 3:04 pm

Very positive thing is that the power of R.Denktas has been eliminated but what worries me more is that papadopoulos is no different to Denktash either. And is so unfortunate to be in power now especially with these recent developments.
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