Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

I read one piece by Ercakica, he talks about places pillaged/plundered (talan edildi), homes' stones and doors torn down (evlerin taslarini ve kapilarini soktu), and yok edilen (Kibrisli) Turk koyleri, which could mean "destroyed Turkish (Cypriot) villages", but could also mean "cleared out" or "emptied" ones.

I have checked the link you have quoted above (essentially it is the same story that I posted earlier, but taken from the TRNC Information Office's website). You will see that the list of thirty villages is described as follows:

Güney Kıbrıs’ta yok edilen Türk köyleri şunlar:
[These are the destroyed Turkish villages in South Cyprus]

I am sorry, but I beg to differ as to the meaning of the Turkish expression "yok etmek". The definition of this expression given in the Turkish Language Institute dictionary is "varlığına son vermek, ortadan kaldırmak, ifna etmek, izale etmek". It is clear to me that this means "destroy" and refers to a deliberate wilful act. You seem to be confusing "yok etmek" with "yok olmak". The implication here is that all thirty villages were wilfully destroyed. In my eyes, Hasan Erçakıca has a great deal of credibility and I am saddened to see him make this kind of exaggerated claim when it is clear that in some of these villages the buildings have gradually collapsed over time due to lack of maintenance. About five miles from where I live is the old abandoned village of Mathikoloni (there is a new Mathikoloni village about a mile away). It is in ruins. Before you start jumping to any conclusions, this was a 100% Greek Cypriot village. That's what happens to traditional Cypriot villages if they are abandoned. They gradually fall into a pile of rubble.

[free_cyprus]

The TC's always spout on about what we did to them. When you confront them to prove what the are saying you never get any evidence.

Yes we did attack the TC's back in the 60's but they seem to forget they were helping the british before we were granted independence.

greece britain and turkey were workign together all along and this included the cypriots who participated in crimes against our own people greek speaking and turkish speaking and even up to today we have somany traitors in our island who call themselves greek cypriots and turkish cypriots this in itself is racism against our won people to brand them turkish or greek.

when they are cypriots as for me i adress them as turkish and greek speakign cypriots not as turkish or greek cypriots...........................................

[DT.]

The TC's always spout on about what we did to them. When you confront them to prove what the are saying you never get any evidence.

Yes we did attack the TC's back in the 60's but they seem to forget they were helping the british before we were granted independence.

greece britain and turkey were workign together all along and this included the cypriots who participated in crimes against our own people greek speaking and turkish speaking and even up to today we have somany traitors in our island who call themselves greek cypriots and turkish cypriots this in itself is racism against our won people to brand them turkish or greek.

when they are cypriots as for me i adress them as turkish and greek speakign cypriots not as turkish or greek cypriots...........................................

That doesn't make sense. You're only dealing with language here. Are you telling me that the TC's need to forget they came over 400 years ago from Turkey?

[free_cyprus]

ohhh dear houston we definatly have a history problem here in this forum who says turkish speakign people of cyprus came to the island 400 years ago

or greek speaking for that matter who has writen the cyprus history that declares this to be the truth
just like the greek historians will have you belive that greeks moved to cyprus and thats why they speak greek today on the island of cyprus hahahahahahaahah feckign joke

oppsss i forgot 200 million portogues moved to brazil becouse they were over crowded in portugal.......................also 500 million spanish speaking south americans moved to south and central america becouse there was over crowding in spain hahahahahahahahaah

[DT.]

ohhh dear houston we definatly have a history problem here in this forum who says turkish speakign people of cyprus came to the island 400 years ago

or greek speaking for that matter who has writen the cyprus history that declares this to be the truth
just like the greek historians will have you belive that greeks moved to cyprus and thats why they speak greek today on the island of cyprus hahahahahahaahah feckign joke

oppsss i forgot 200 million portogues moved to brazil becouse they were over crowded in portugal.......................also 500 million spanish speaking south americans moved to south and central america becouse there was over crowding in spain hahahahahahahahaah

OK, when did the TC's first appear on the island?

[Tim Drayton]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hHm57MKh-Ac

http://martinwilliamhill.fotopic.net/c1459049.html

few days later i will come to this topic again . In these days i am very bussy with my projects .

Tim , if you go back few pages back you can see the maps .... read what it says on the maps .

Halil, I have consulted the map and seen what it says: "VILLAGES WHICH MIGRATED AS A RESULT OF THE 1963 GREEK CYPRIOT ATTACKS". Apart from the fact that most of these incidents occured in 1964 rather than 1963, I do not dispute the fact that Turkish Cypriots left the villages shown on the map in the course of the 1963-1964 ethnic conflict.

However, the map does not show which, if any, of these villages are alleged to have been burned. With respect, I do not see the relevance to the current discussion. The claim is made that "hundreds of Turkish Cypriot villages were burned", and the purpose of this thread is to challenge this claim. Will anybody who believes that hundreds of entire villages were burned either name them or hold their peace? It is as simple as that.

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

In the article by Adnan Tink which I mentioned above, the writer says

1963 yılında EOKA'cılar yeni bir etnik temizleme planını devreye soktular, bu saldırılarda 500 Türk öldürüldü, 130 Türk köyü yakıldı, 25 bin Türk evlerini terk etmek zorunda kaldı.

[In 1963, EOKA supporters introduced a new ethnic cleansing plan and in these attacks 500 Turks were killed, 130 Turkish villages were burned and 25 thousand Turks had to abandon their houses]

This is what people in Turkey are being told. I have a simple question:

Is Adnan Tink's claim that 130 Turkish villages were burned in 1963 true or false?

In connection with this, if you believe that Adnan Tink's above claim is false, I have a second question:

Do exaggerated and inflammatory claims of this nature help or hinder the process of peace and reconciliation in Cyprus?

[free_cyprus]

ohhh dear houston we definatly have a history problem here in this forum who says turkish speakign people of cyprus came to the island 400 years ago

or greek speaking for that matter who has writen the cyprus history that declares this to be the truth
just like the greek historians will have you belive that greeks moved to cyprus and thats why they speak greek today on the island of cyprus hahahahahahaahah feckign joke

oppsss i forgot 200 million portogues moved to brazil becouse they were over crowded in portugal.......................also 500 million spanish speaking south americans moved to south and central america becouse there was over crowding in spain hahahahahahahahaah

OK, when did the TC's first appear on the island?

is it possible that turkish speakign people of cyprus were given an option to speak turkish as a result of becoming turkish becouse of the otoman oquppation at the time,

it seems you are insisting that turkish speakign people and greek speakign people if cyprus came from greece and turkey if this si true what happened to the cypriot population who comited genocide against cypriot people the greeks or the turks

[DT.]

ohhh dear houston we definatly have a history problem here in this forum who says turkish speakign people of cyprus came to the island 400 years ago

or greek speaking for that matter who has writen the cyprus history that declares this to be the truth
just like the greek historians will have you belive that greeks moved to cyprus and thats why they speak greek today on the island of cyprus hahahahahahaahah feckign joke

oppsss i forgot 200 million portogues moved to brazil becouse they were over crowded in portugal.......................also 500 million spanish speaking south americans moved to south and central america becouse there was over crowding in spain hahahahahahahahaah

OK, when did the TC's first appear on the island?

is it possible that turkish speakign people of cyprus were given an option to speak turkish as a result of becoming turkish becouse of the otoman oquppation at the time,

it seems you are insisting that turkish speakign people and greek speakign people if cyprus came from greece and turkey if this si true what happened to the cypriot population who comited genocide against cypriot people the greeks or the turks

so what language where the people on the island speaking before the Ottoman invasion?

[Tim Drayton]

PS - I accept that individual houses and whole quarters of villages were burned down or destroyed in the course of the 1963-1964 disputes, but I have still to hear anybody back up the claim of whole villages being burned or bulldozed by quoting a name.

Agios Epiphanios-Soleas, Pano Koutraphas... There are others. (Plus, why do you accept whole neighbourhoods were destroyed but then decide that the destruction of whole villages is suddenly somehow unbelievable?)

If I may quote from you post on Dec 28 6:45 pm on this very thread:

Certainly, the Turkish Cypriot homes of Agioi Eliophotes/Alifodez, Agios Epiphanios-Soleas/Aybifan, Arediou/Aredyu and Pano Koutraphas/Yukari Kurtbogan were destroyed in 1964 or 1974

you yourself are supporting my claim i.e. it was the Turkish Cypriot quarter of Agios Epiphanios that was destroyed and not the whole village.

Why do you accept whole neighbourhoods were destroyed but then decide that the destruction of whole villages is suddenly somehow unbelievable?

What an odd question. I am not saying that it is somehow unbelieveable that entire villages could be distroyed, I am simply saying that I see no evidence that this happened.

[zan]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hHm57MKh-Ac

http://martinwilliamhill.fotopic.net/c1459049.html

few days later i will come to this topic again . In these days i am very bussy with my projects .

Tim , if you go back few pages back you can see the maps .... read what it says on the maps .

Halil, I have consulted the map and seen what it says: "VILLAGES WHICH MIGRATED AS A RESULT OF THE 1963 GREEK CYPRIOT ATTACKS". Apart from the fact that most of these incidents occured in 1964 rather than 1963, I do not dispute the fact that Turkish Cypriots left the villages shown on the map in the course of the 1963-1964 ethnic conflict.

However, the map does not show which, if any, of these villages are alleged to have been burned. With respect, I do not see the relevance to the current discussion. The claim is made that "hundreds of Turkish Cypriot villages were burned", and the purpose of this thread is to challenge this claim. Will anybody who believes that hundreds of entire villages were burned either name them or hold their peace? It is as simple as that.

It is like dealing with some brainwashed religious sect who, if you challenge one plank of their cherished doctrine, assume that you are automatically denying everything they believe in. This assumption is wrong. I do not dispute that the Turkish Cypriot community went through a lot of suffering at this time; I do dispute the claim that "hundreds of villages were burned".

In the article by Adnan Tink which I mentioned above, the writer says

1963 yılında EOKA'cılar yeni bir etnik temizleme planını devreye soktular, bu saldırılarda 500 Türk öldürüldü, 130 Türk köyü yakıldı, 25 bin Türk evlerini terk etmek zorunda kaldı.

[In 1963, EOKA supporters introduced a new ethnic cleansing plan and in these attacks 500 Turks were killed, 130 Turkish villages were burned and 25 thousand Turks had to abandon their houses]

This is what people in Turkey are being told. I have a simple question:

Is Adnan Tink's claim that 130 Turkish villages were burned in 1963 true or false?

In connection with this, if you believe that Adnan Tink's above claim is false, I have a second question:

Do exaggerated and inflammatory claims of this nature help or hinder the process of peace and reconciliation in Cyprus?

I do like your wording Tim and how you attack "Ethnic conflict" into the fray, which is in itself a watered down euphemism for what happened. You accuse others of a religious sect type mentality and suffer from it yourself. You blast us for even mentioning 1963/74 and even have the nerve to ask what it has to do with the present situation but add your little insults of 1974 and the refugees produced. You insult every TC when you ask this. We have had our rights taken away mate and that happened in 1964. When you are ready to hand them back to us then the talks will progress and not before. Asking us to forget what happened to us and only take what happened in 1974 is pointless. You want to help the peace process.....Then try to refrain from asking us to believe that the exodus from our villages was a more relaxed and less destructive. Try looking at the news reports of the day if you REALLY want to get to the bottom of it. All you are doing at the moment is what the paid members of the Greek movement are doing on this form.......If that has eluded you as well and you cannot see that then a line from Black Adder might help......."Deny everything Baldrick"....It has taken me three years to hear that the TCs might have actually suffered at the hands of the Greeks......Maybe another three will have us acknowledging the destruction to TC property and the cover up. Villages burned.....Greeks moved in and renovated...Deniz home and village mosque disappears, Halil giving you example after example but unless you see the whole mess as it was you will not believe it.....Perhaps you even believe the world is still flat