Elections in America
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 Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:05 pm |
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| Filitsa |
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| GorillaGal wrote: |
| Filitsa wrote: |
| GorillaGal wrote: |
| dinos wrote: |
| GorillaGal wrote: |
i am a democrat, and will vote whomever is on the ticket. i was hoping Hillary would run, with Obama as VP. i like them both, but Hillary already has 8 years experience in the white house, and a husband who she can get good advise from. Obama could learn alot, and when Hillery's 2nd term is completed, Obama could go for hsi 2 terms as persident.
a girl can dream, can't she?
i like Obama's issues on taxing the companies up the whazoo for outsourcing jobs to india. plenty of americans could do that work, and at least i could understand an american's accent over a thick indian accent when i call my ISP for tech support. |
In my opinion, it is so expensive to offshore labor to places like India that you would not do it for any reason other than a lack of quality labor in the home market. The answer, of course, is to stop dumbing down the school system and force kids to actually learn math and science so that they can have a chance to compete with their counterparts overseas.
Hope you're well! |
education has little to do with it. it's more about money. |
Dinos, I'm inclined to agree that education is indeed a large part of the problem.
GG, what do you mean by "it's more about money"? |
it's alot cheaper to pay an indian than an american.
when i call my ISP for tech support, they are just reading what i need to do to fix my computer. it's all programmed into their system. someone calls with this problem, it tells them what to tell me to remedy the situation. and they can pay a person in india alot less than they pay an american to do that.
this is why so many things are made in foreign countries. it can be done cheaper there. it's all about money, very little to do with intelligence. |
Oh, yes, GG, it's my understaning too that it's cheaper to outsource; otherwise, why would businesses be doing it? Dino? |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:46 pm |
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| dinos |
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| Joined: 08 Aug 2006 |
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| Location: New York |
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| Filitsa wrote: |
Oh, yes, GG, it's my understaning too that it's cheaper to outsource; otherwise, why would businesses be doing it? Dino? |
The intermediaries needed to recruit, hire and train the help in offshore markets are very expensive and, especially when dealing with skilled labor, the labor isn't really that cheap. Plus there's all the HR overhead... I was part of this type of decision process a few years ago. It was way too expensive to offshore the labor (would have cost more than just hiring people in NY). You would only do so if you cannot find quality labor in the home market. We decided against it.
I'm away from the desk for the rest of the day - more to follow RE some other posts tomorrow or Monday... |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:57 pm |
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| Mills Chapman |
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Kikapu, sorry for not realizing that you pretty much said the same thing I did. I should have referenced your post. At any rate, thanks for the reinforcements. 
Filitsa, folks draw the comparison to JFK because he is an inspiring speaker. I've seen a lot of tv news coverage where people on the street are being interviewed afterwards, and they say they haven't been this inspired since JFK - that's the reason for the comparison (not the Democrat or Harvard stuff). |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:53 pm |
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| Oracle |
| vip |
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| Joined: 11 Feb 2008 |
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| Location: One step ahead of the Turks! |
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Far be it from me to get involved with politics or Americans... don't understand either ..... 
But ...
This is the US' chance to really prove itself as a non-hypocritical sophisticated country.
Obama is just a man after all. If anyone singles him out for being (partly) African American, well that's positive discrimination... and suggestive that they vote for him because he is African American, and not just because he is a good male candidate.
On the other hand Hilary is an extremely intelligent woman .. has nurtured a President through two terms etc
As a person she is the most experienced ... yet it weighs against her that she is female.
And yet by the same token the US can really rise in the World's eyes by electing her.
But once again prejudices rule in the US.
Obama will get in because the US wants to improve its "Blacks" image ... but still electing a man (this is paramount).
And a woman will not get in because in reality ... the US is not grown up enough to accept being ruled by a female ... even if she is white. |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:58 pm |
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| Filitsa |
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| Mills Chapman wrote: |
Kikapu, sorry for not realizing that you pretty much said the same thing I did. I should have referenced your post. At any rate, thanks for the reinforcements.
Filitsa, folks draw the comparison to JFK because he is an inspiring speaker. I've seen a lot of tv news coverage where people on the street are being interviewed afterwards, and they say they haven't been this inspired since JFK - that's the reason for the comparison (not the Democrat or Harvard stuff). |
Even at that, Mills Chapman, I don't think his charisma is inherent as was JFK's. I think it's more that the alternatives are uninspiring.
And, if I remember correctly, he cleverly unofficially announced his bid for the White House, touting his vote against invading Iraq, which was shortly after the time the American public became disheartened by Bush, said invasion, and increasing body counts. Add a few chants about "change" and therein lies the foundation for his "charisma." |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:13 am |
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| Mills Chapman |
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| Filitsa wrote: |
| And, if I remember correctly, he cleverly unofficially announced his bid for the White House, touting his vote against invading Iraq, which was shortly after the time the American public became disheartened by Bush, said invasion, and increasing body counts. Add a few chants about "change" and therein lies the foundation for his "charisma." |
Hi Filitsa,
You may be right about the JFK bit, but I don't think it should matter when he announced his candidacy. As long as he was against invading Iraq from the beginning, that's what should count. A lot of Americans knew that the Iraq affair was wrong, and it's now cost us something like $500 billion. I also like how he's willing to meet with any leader with no preconditions, as that can help tone down a lot of unnecessary saber-rattling.
Cheers from Phrosty Philadelphia,
Mills |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:18 am |
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| Filitsa |
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| I agree, Mills, that more importantly he voted against the invasion, but you must admit this coupled with the timing of his announcement was the catalytst to the intrigue that surrounds him. I wouldn't mind a $500 bil investment if it was for a noble cause. I hope he holds true to his commitment to meet with opposing heads of state. |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:44 am |
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| Mills Chapman |
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| Joined: 10 Dec 2004 |
| Posts: 503 |
| Location: Aitutaki |
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| Filitsa wrote: |
| I agree, Mills, that more importantly he voted against the invasion, but you must admit this coupled with the timing of his announcement was the catalytst to the intrigue that surrounds him. I wouldn't mind a $500 bil investment if it was for a noble cause. I hope he holds true to his commitment to meet with opposing heads of state. |
Half of America has been disenchanted with Bush since he was elected in 2000. More since then. And many were disenchanted with the Iraq affair from the get-go. For the democrat voters who can select Obama as their canidate in this primary, they were disenchanted with both Bush and Iraq long before Obama announced anything.
If there is a strike against Obama, it's that he should have waited another term so that he could have more experience in the US senate. But hopefully that's offset by the ethical baggage that Hillary carries from the '90s (see Whitewater investigation in addition to V Foster). |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:52 am |
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| Mills Chapman |
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| Joined: 10 Dec 2004 |
| Posts: 503 |
| Location: Aitutaki |
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| Oracle wrote: |
Far be it from me to get involved with politics or Americans... don't understand either .....
But ...
This is the US' chance to really prove itself as a non-hypocritical sophisticated country.
Obama is just a man after all. If anyone singles him out for being (partly) African American, well that's positive discrimination... and suggestive that they vote for him because he is African American, and not just because he is a good male candidate.
On the other hand Hilary is an extremely intelligent woman .. has nurtured a President through two terms etc
As a person she is the most experienced ... yet it weighs against her that she is female.
And yet by the same token the US can really rise in the World's eyes by electing her.
But once again prejudices rule in the US.
Obama will get in because the US wants to improve its "Blacks" image ... but still electing a man (this is paramount).
And a woman will not get in because in reality ... the US is not grown up enough to accept being ruled by a female ... even if she is white. |
If one was to replace "woman" with "black male" in this post and vice versa, the same argument could be made about why to pick Obama. The US can rise just as much by electing a black man. The Civil Rights era, with innocent blacks being attacked by police dogs during peaceful marches, was only 40 years ago.
"Still electing a man (this is paramount)" is a subjective comment; for disclaimer purposes, I am a man, but if I were happy with the woman's views towards Iraq and foreign policy, I'd vote for her too.
"And a woman will not get in because in reality ... the US is not grown up enough to accept being ruled by a female ... even if she is white." - this could just as easily be said about being ruled by a black man. A lot of former Klansmen are still alive in the US.
Hillary is indeed extremely intelligent and did nurture a president through twp terms, but there were a lot of personal/integrity issues that wore down Americans during the Clinton administration... like letting celebrities sleep in historic rooms of the White House with their spouses if they first chipped in money to the Clinton's campaign fund. |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:03 am |
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| Filitsa |
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| Joined: 20 Jul 2005 |
| Posts: 902 |
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| Mills Chapman wrote: |
| Filitsa wrote: |
| I agree, Mills, that more importantly he voted against the invasion, but you must admit this coupled with the timing of his announcement was the catalytst to the intrigue that surrounds him. I wouldn't mind a $500 bil investment if it was for a noble cause. I hope he holds true to his commitment to meet with opposing heads of state. |
Half of America has been disenchanted with Bush since he was elected in 2000. More since then. And many were disenchanted with the Iraq affair from the get-go. For the democrat voters who can select Obama as their canidate in this primary, they were disenchanted with both Bush and Iraq long before Obama announced anything. |
I have to disagree. In the fall of 2001, GWB had a 90% approval rating.
| Quote: |
| If there is a strike against Obama, it's that he should have waited another term so that he could have more experience in the US senate. But hopefully that's offset by the ethical baggage that Hillary carries from the '90s (see Whitewater investigation in addition to V Foster). |
I'm one of those subscribers ... was on the fence right up until the morning of the primary. The "baggage issue" was the deciding factor. |
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