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Well Done President Christofias!

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby miltiades » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:22 pm

Oracle wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Andros wrote:Oracle,

I liked your posting - thank you.

I thought this forum was about "Ideas". I wish I was those thing you said, at least we'd have somewhere concrete to start from. Unfortunately, my idea of being "Certain" is my own assumption - only because I am probably a lot older than you and have been in the Cyprus political game for many, many years. I know the way the Turks and British think when it come to Cyprus, and I believe I know what games they have played in the past!

Let's hope that your skills as the "Oracle" can perhaps work out if will be able to politically beat Turkey on the Cyprus problem with President Christofias as our head!

You dont come across as a man over 75 mate !!!


Miltiades.. you are over a dozen years older than me ...

Stop playing silly buggers ... or I may have to challenge you to some death-defying stunts! :lol:

Older in years but younger at heart I might add , as for challenging me to a stunt , let me start by stating that I can stand on one leg with the other one firmy stuck to a chair , so there !
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Postby Oracle » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:29 pm

miltiades wrote:
Oracle wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Andros wrote:Oracle,

I liked your posting - thank you.

I thought this forum was about "Ideas". I wish I was those thing you said, at least we'd have somewhere concrete to start from. Unfortunately, my idea of being "Certain" is my own assumption - only because I am probably a lot older than you and have been in the Cyprus political game for many, many years. I know the way the Turks and British think when it come to Cyprus, and I believe I know what games they have played in the past!

Let's hope that your skills as the "Oracle" can perhaps work out if will be able to politically beat Turkey on the Cyprus problem with President Christofias as our head!

You dont come across as a man over 75 mate !!!


Miltiades.. you are over a dozen years older than me ...

Stop playing silly buggers ... or I may have to challenge you to some death-defying stunts! :lol:

Older in years but younger at heart I might add , as for challenging me to a stunt , let me start by stating that I can stand on one leg with the other one firmy stuck to a chair , so there !


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Superglue is lethal... eh!

:lol:
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Postby Andros » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:26 pm

BC Numismatics,

Your Answer:
Andros,the Sovereign Base Areas are legally established under the terms of the Cyprus Independence Agreement of 1959.Of course,Cyprus is a republic.The S.B.A.s aren't a monarchy, but 2 British colonies that are under a common British military administration, whose Administrator is formally appointed by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II.



Thank you for the recap BC, but I feel that I should explain my thoughts with regards to my aim on the Cyprus issue and the "Conflicting" issues regarding what you've mentioned in quotes above.

Firstly, I am seeking a Cyprus Solution with no borders, constituent states, component states and no- "treaty of Guarantee" for all. If we (all Cypriots), and President Christofias, is seeking a unified Cyprus with no-borders and restrictions, just "one" sovereignty and one international representation, then I am afraid we can not also accept double-standards with the inclusion of the British "Sovereign" area in a final agreement. Let me explain.....

In simple words, we can not argue with Turkey in a UN negotiated process to send back their troops, not include a "Treaty of Guarantee" of Turkey, Greece and the UK, while harbouring two British bases on the island!

Those two so-called British "Sovereign" areas will always be used by Turkey as an example of double-standards in any proposed "Unification" deal we throw at them. As I have said in the past, I am seeking a Cyprus unification deal where all Cypriots live with No external intervention, no legally constitutional threat of military intervention and no foreign military stations on the island. How can we seek a pure federal solution if, from day one, we start including lines of legal articles about "two sovereign" British bases, and the right for Turkey to intervene in event of inter-communal clashes and etc, etc.

Therefore, a unification deal must either be "across the board" or none at all - that is my theory, and probably President Christofias' as well. Also, and knowing the way Turkey works and what they are expecting as a base-minimum, if a unification agreement does not include at least the treaty of Guarantee and two constituent type of states similarly to the former "Annan Plan", then I think President Christofias will ultimately hit a brick wall.

NON-ACCEPTABLE TERMS:
If we keep on referring to the laws and rights of the 1960 treaty only in a "Future" unification deal, then we will also lose. It must be a new plan, a hybrid or all that has happened and based on EU Principles, and not just on historical signed aging non-practical out-of-date agreements. I strongly believe that a unification deal must, and can only succeed, if Turkey is cornered into understanding that an "EU" approach to unification must be based on good-will, freedom, No guarantorship clause in its constitution, No threat of military intervention on EU territory, No foreign soldiers and No British Military so-called sovereign areas. It must not include any of these. Like Mauritius, an island of peoples, regardless of their historical connection to a so-called motherland.

Alternatively, and this is only my view (although, according to a recent interview with Christofias by the Cyprus Mail in late 2007 it sounds like our President also agrees that if a new UN plan includes even one of the mentioned non-acceptable terms above, he would also not accept unification), I would personally prefer partition of three states - The Republic of Cyprus, a Turkish Cypriot State, and your so-called British Sovereign Area.

In that case, Turkey can intervene legally in as much as it wants in a Turkish Cypriot State only, at least we Greek Cypriots will be rid of such unacceptable terms. The above is only some of the reasons why our people had vote "No" to the former "Annan Plan 5", and disagree with the Turkish Cypriot leaders most recent call for a UN process based on the Annan Plan 5. If this is what Mr Talat believes will be the foundation of future negotiations, I hope that President Christofias will quickly put him in his place.


Sorry all - but it's got to be all or nothing to me: I wish for a unified republic of Cyprus, and not one with more restrictions and derogations than a prison camp!
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Postby BC Numismatics » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:43 pm

Andros,are you in favour of tearing up the 1959 Cyprus Independence Agreement? The Sovereign Base Areas are NOT an infringement on Cyprus' sovereignty as an independent state.

Both Great Britain & Cyprus should negotiate a treaty of friendship,in which Great Britain can assist Cyprus' armed forces only when the Government of Cyprus requests assistance.

Both Greece & Turkey have been using Cyprus as a pawn in their braindead game for far too long!

THERE IS ONLY ONE CYPRUS - NEITHER GREEK NOR TURKISH,BUT CYPRIOT!

There should be no such thing as a 'Greek Cypriot state',& there should also be no such thing as a 'Turkish Cypriot state'.

Both Greece & Turkey ARE the problem! Great Britain IS NOT the problem!

Aidan.
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Postby purdey » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:52 pm

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.
If it were my decision,I would happily give you the Sovereign Bases.
Unfortunately our Government take little notice of my views or those of the Cypriot Government and it's people.
In short,the Sovereign Base areas are there to stay...no negotiation,or discussion.
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Postby Andros » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:39 pm

Hi BC,

Use Said,
Both Great Britain & Cyprus should negotiate a treaty of friendship,in which Great Britain can assist Cyprus' armed forces only when the Government of Cyprus requests assistance.


Even though I understand your British sensitivity in wanting to keep a British base on the island, why would we need the assistance of the British armed forces in a unified Cyprus within the EU that can perfectly respond to any security issues, if they should arise! Also, we are no longer in the 1960s!

Also, I was under the impression that the agreement of independence for an independent Cyprus is an issue that has been done and rusted, while we are now only seeking an agreement for unification? Are they not two completely seperate entities?

Also, why would Cyprus and the UK need to negotiate a treaty of friendship? Are we not both part of the European Union? Are we not friends already?

Also, you said:
THERE IS ONLY ONE CYPRUS - NEITHER GREEK NOR TURKISH,BUT CYPRIOT!


That is exactly my point, I also agree with there being no Greek, Turkish, English or Armenian Cypriot states......

....... nor should there be British bases or Turkish forces?

In the eyes of the Greek Cypriot part of the Cypriot community in Cyprus, we strongly believe that Britain's influence on the island should be dissolved and should no be a thing of the past. Unless you are advocating partition in order to prove that the British bases are needed in order to protect either on of the Cypriot communities?

Can you tell Aidan, honestly, why British, as a EU member, should need two large bases on the island of Cyprus?

Thanks and regards,
Andros
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Postby purdey » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:15 pm

Andros,Aiden is in bed so I will reply.By the way Aiden lives in NZ.
Britain is a EU member ,maybe relucantly in the eyes of the most.Bases,are primarily there as stageing posts,and listening posts.
All traffic listened to is shared with some EU members and the US.The likelyhood of the UK giving back this land is extremely remote,no matter how much pressure is forthcoming.
I as a UK citizen have no problem with the demands of the Cypriot populace,I would rather my hard earned tax is spent on projects in the UK.
Oh,as far as the EU is concerned,the vast majority have a poor record in helping other member states in times of crisis,don't rely on swift support if you are in a tight situation..
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Postby Andros » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:30 pm

purdey,

Fair enough! I kind of agree, in principle with the EU not really being able to respond if a crisis should flare up.

According to the Christofias camp, being a deep socialist and all, it appears that his line of negociation is either a pure federation, or nothing - while it's the nothing that's concerning as I am sure Papadopoulos has already gone through all this already prior to the Annan agreement in New York.

Something fishy is going on!
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Postby BC Numismatics » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:03 pm

Andros,Cyprus is also a British Commonwealth member state,so I reckon that all proper British Commonwealth member states should be supporting one another,especially in times of trouble.In Cyprus' case,Great Britain should be very supportive.The Sovereign Base Areas are a very positive thing,as they provide employment for the native Cypriots who live in the area (& hold British citizenship as well!),thus contributing to the Cypriot economy.

It isn't only Turkey that is a threat,but also Iran as well.

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Postby purdey » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:27 pm

Aidan,Pirates needs some input on his questionaire...
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