Let us turn Ledras Street into a Peace Avenue
 Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:05 am |
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| Expatkiwi |
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| Location: California, USA |
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GR, unless the Turkish Cypriots have some form of guarantee as to their political survival, you are just pissing in the wind...
I suppose that you could propose the U.S. system of a lower house made up by population proportion, and an upper house (senate) made up of representatives (equal number) from the four main ethnic groups which needs to approve legistation from the lower house. It might work in Cyprus, and it gives you your precious 80/20 balance without ignoring the fact that all ethnic groups in Cyprus need a safeguard, hence the senate.
OMG, I'm suggesting a reconciliation formula! Aaaarrrggghhhhh!!!! |
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Last edited by Expatkiwi on Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:05 am |
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| humanist |
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| Joined: 10 Nov 2006 |
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shahmaran
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| Wow thats a big step backwards from Humanist, what happened to you? |
I just feel disillussioned Shah, I believe we are our largest enemy. The constant victimhood and who suffered more. If you go back to my initial posts on this forum you will find that it was very critical of the RoC and its lack of action toward enabling TC's to feel part of their country. However, now I kinda feel that the TC community also needs to take resposnibility if they truly want unification and I guess I don't see that. The other issue of late that caused me real pain and therefore a sense of carelessness on the part of the TC about what has happened to the other side too and particualrly a post on the missing just made me realise rightly or wrongly that TC somehow fees that its okay to have missing persons so long they are not TC.
Some may say here he goes again, but I wish to put things in context. My grandmother lost her 17 years old son during the Turkish invasion in 1974 and she died about ten years ago not knowing the fate of her son. Luckily his remains were found four years ago and through DNA my mother was able to burry her brother in a State funeral, but my grandmother although probably with her son now didn't know what happened. When I read posts deveuing that older women's experience and her loss it pissess me right off and the hurt just zooms about like a harricane.
hence my coments.
I know we all indulge in what happened to our resective communities. But I do believe that if we truly want a Unified Cyprus we all of us on this forum and in our daily lives need to act in a way that will bring unity to our country not the other way around. Yes we need to learn from the past no doubt and we need to acknowledge the wrong to each other by each other, but we can also change our situation to a better one where all Cypriots feel equlity and opportunity. Neither we unfortunately nor our leaders are moving towarsd that direction.
Thank you f for noticing anyway. I hope my response helps you in your question to me.
Regards
Andreas |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:08 am |
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| humanist |
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| Define centre (never mind the dead part). Is it the same centre that voted for Klerides in 1993 in order to get rid of Vasiliou? Anyway, I put it to you that the extreme right voted for Papadopoulos and, in case you are interested, those that deny solution are part of the extreme right. |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:13 am |
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| humanist |
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bananiot
| Quote: |
| Define centre (never mind the dead part). Is it the same centre that voted for Klerides in 1993 in order to get rid of Vasiliou? Anyway, I put it to you that the extreme right voted for Papadopoulos and, in case you are interested, those that deny solution are part of the extreme right. |
Bananiot I do agree with your coments. Sadly to hear but there are some GC's who do not want unification. And they are part of the extreme right, however their nubers are low.
In regards to your signature, I do believe that Cypriots need to fight together to free themslves from the British occupation and demand back our sovereighnty, this will enable the process of unification to find an easier path. It will truly unite our country and possibly aid in the land distribution between the two states of a United Cyprus. Perhpas Dekelia can go to the TC's to allow for more GC's the right of return. I dunno a crazy idea may be or one that might give some breathing space.
Having said that I do not hold my breath that the British will see the light in what am saying here. |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:27 am |
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| Bananiot |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 11 Jun 2004 |
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| Location: Nicosia |
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So, GR thinks democracy can only be based on numericals. It is mere statistics for him. Democracy is far more complex of course and it comes in many shapes and flavours. In our case the political equality of the two communities is a must and this is the only patriotic thing to do because the other option is partition. It is extremism on our behalf to ask for political dominance of the majority over the minority and those that propose this even today, after the tragic events of 1974, have really took a leave from reality, rationality and common sense.
People with extreme views are found in most political parties, DISI not excluded. However, its leadership distances itself from these extremists. On the other hand DIKO has extremists in its leadership and I will not mention Pittokopitis and Koulias but Papadopoulos himself, who once asked for the names of two Turkish Cypriot villages to be annihilated from the face of the earth.
My party GR is EDI - as you know - and we do not harbour extremists. In fact, because we do not play the patriotic tune, we have been accused of treason by the pavement patriots on many occasions. We have been told that we camp in the court of Xerxes and that we say in Greek what the Turks say in Turkish. We voted for solution in 2004 and still strive towards that blessed end. Our Turkish Cypriot compatriots have no problem with us and if all Greek Cypriots were like us, they would even probably accept minority rights and nothing else. This is because we are humane and considerate above all and respect whatever differences we have with the Turkish Cypriot community, but above all, we adore these differences and crave to live and create in a multi cultural society. |
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Last edited by Bananiot on Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:33 am; edited 3 times in total |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:27 am |
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| Bananiot |
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| Location: Nicosia |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:11 pm |
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| Get Real! |
| vip |
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| Joined: 26 Feb 2007 |
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| Location: Nicosia |
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| Bananiot wrote: |
| So, GR thinks democracy can only be based on numericals. It is mere statistics for him. Democracy is far more complex of course and it comes in many shapes and flavours. |
There is only ONE type of modern democracy and it's about time you educated yourself instead of posting rubbish...
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/whatsdem/whatdm2.htm
| Quote: |
| In our case the political equality of the two communities is a must and this is the only patriotic thing to do because the other option is partition. |
I don't know where you get these stupid ideas from... "political equality" has NOTHING to do with the undemocratic allocation of extra votes to a minority at the majority's expense because Turkey has a gun against your head! If anything "political equality" REINFORCES AND ENCOURAGES the equality of two or more human beings... NOT communities, and Democracy does EXACTLY that.
http://www.hks.harvard.edu/inequality/Summer/Summer01/papers/Verba.pdf
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| It is extremism on our behalf to ask for political dominance of the majority over the minority and those that propose this even today, after the tragic events of 1974, have really took a leave from reality, rationality and common sense. |
A modern democracy has built-in protections for minorities so it's not an issue even.
Bye-bye Bananiot... come back when you've done your homework...  |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:23 pm |
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| observer |
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Get Real:
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| There is only ONE type of modern democracy and it's about time you educated yourself instead of posting rubbish... |
Posting a bit of rubbish yourself aren't you?
USA, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Italy all have different types of democracy yet all would consider themselves modern and democratic. |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:54 pm |
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| Get Real! |
| vip |
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| Joined: 26 Feb 2007 |
| Posts: 8442 |
| Location: Nicosia |
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| observer wrote: |
Get Real:
| Quote: |
| There is only ONE type of modern democracy and it's about time you educated yourself instead of posting rubbish... |
Posting a bit of rubbish yourself aren't you?
USA, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Italy all have different types of democracy yet all would consider themselves modern and democratic. |
You’re confusing FORMS of governments under a Democracy. The “PILLARS” of Democracy are all the SAME in all the countries you mentioned.
THE PILLARS OF DEMOCRACY
Sovereignty of the people.
Government based upon consent of the governed.
Majority rule.
Minority rights.
Guarantee of basic human rights.
Free and fair elections.
Equality before the law.
Due process of law.
Constitutional limits on government.
Social, economic, and political pluralism.
Values of tolerance, pragmatism, cooperation, and compromise. |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:04 pm |
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| shahmaran |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 16 Jan 2007 |
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| Thats not entirely accurate GR!, types of democracy can vary in many ways one of them being how they deal with the minority rights, and as far as i can tell, your idea of it is when the minority opinion can be totally scrapped. |
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