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Manifesto: for your consideration

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby zan » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:56 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...you cannot escape your Nationality, whether you are born in a State of that Nation or not.

...for those who insist that Cyprus is Greek, there is a correctness in the argument but irrelevant in the Modern context. States support Principals whose identities are Universal; many Nations exist within a State. Cypriots have committed themselves to the rest of Mankind, toward defining this Bicommunalism.

...if we wish to emulate the Kemalists, our movement forward as a people will meet with the same resistance. "Greekness" like "Turkishness" is not a qualification that can justify Intolerance and exclusivity. Cyprus, Cypriots, who are Sovereign, are Greek, only if there are island dwellers like them who are not Greek, who are equals in its Stewardship, because they stand united as a People without any other distinction.

As Individuals we have only one Identity, this is the fact that has escaped our debate, even if as Persons we sustain identities which are different.


...again, where is the Greek Constituent State?


By name, none! Flying under sate sponsored Greek flags.....Well!
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Postby Klik » Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:00 am

Want a solution?
Get post-1974 Turks out of here along with the armed forces, get all those who don't want to live in a unitary state out of here and wherever else they want and you have a solution. Anything else is a crime against humanity
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Postby repulsewarrior » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:11 am

Klik,
...even with everything you ask for, (which is not at all unreasonable), don't you believe that Cypriots deserve a Constitution which is futuristic, reformed in a manner where they can enjoy security for the next two hundred years?

zan,
...sorry, i have no idea what you are trying to say, however i get the impression that you are trying to be snide; cheers.
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Postby Klik » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:18 am

repulsewarrior wrote:Klik,
...even with everything you ask for, (which is not at all unreasonable), don't you believe that Cypriots deserve a Constitution which is futuristic, reformed in a manner where they can enjoy security for the next two hundred years?



The situation is simple. It's the famous "double or nothing" the Americans say quite a lot. It's either the minority accepts that it's the minority, or the majority should press for their rights.

It's the only situation where the majority has less rights than the minority. And now what? We want to legalize that action on top?
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Postby zan » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:45 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:Klik,
...even with everything you ask for, (which is not at all unreasonable), don't you believe that Cypriots deserve a Constitution which is futuristic, reformed in a manner where they can enjoy security for the next two hundred years?

zan,
...sorry, i have no idea what you are trying to say, however i get the impression that you are trying to be snide; cheers.


I had respect enough for you to not expect me to explain every little detail and that you might actually enjoy a cryptic challenge but obviously I was wrong RW and I apologise. I also note that even your presented good nature has resorted to name calling. My hope that there are decent honest people in this world is crumbling fast. First Humanist and now you :(


Cyprus man! I was talking about Cyprus, under Greek Flags!!!!! :roll:
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Postby Filitsa » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:54 pm

Klik wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:Klik,
...even with everything you ask for, (which is not at all unreasonable), don't you believe that Cypriots deserve a Constitution which is futuristic, reformed in a manner where they can enjoy security for the next two hundred years?



The situation is simple. It's the famous "double or nothing" the Americans say quite a lot. It's either the minority accepts that it's the minority, or the majority should press for their rights.

It's the only situation where the majority has less rights than the minority. And now what? We want to legalize that action on top?


I think you misunderstand the concept, Klik. "Majority rule; minority rights," are the "twin pillars" of democracy in America. In a democracy, majority rule ensures the basic human rights of all, including the minority. It is not a means of oppression. Democracies understand that there is no reasonably absolute way to resolve the cultural differences of the minority and that providing for them serves to strengthen the democracy. Minorities need to trust that their rights will be protected by the government, that they will be afforded freedom of expression, religion, due process, and full participation in public life.

Would you please elaborate more on how the Cyprus "majority has less rights than the miinority"?
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Postby Klik » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:26 pm

Do you live in Cyprus? If yes, you know...

If not, I'll just tell you that I pay taxes so that the people living illegally in my homes will have electricity and other comforts for free. That's good enough for starters and I think it's by itself reason enough to say that.
Don't even wanna mention health care....
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Postby Filitsa » Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:32 am

Klik wrote:Do you live in Cyprus? If yes, you know...

If not, I'll just tell you that I pay taxes so that the people living illegally in my homes will have electricity and other comforts for free. That's good enough for starters and I think it's by itself reason enough to say that.
Don't even wanna mention health care....


Who imposes those taxes, Klik?
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Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:41 am

...zan, perhaps it was too subtle for me, but i don't think so. I defend a Cypriot cause, not "Greekness" or "Turkishness".

...i too am talking about Cyprus, not under any flag, not a "Greek" flag or "Turkish" flag.

...as for name calling, whatever zan, i did not understand you and i was honest enough to say so, easy for you to plunk me with "Greeks" because i am Greek, however it shames me quite frankly that you are willing to support "Turks" because you are Turkish; we are Cypriots. in essence, i recognise that my suffering comes from the Intolerance of Ignorant people. and IMHO, you still feel that somehow, as Humans, your pain needs an identity which absolves the character you hold dear as a Person. i believe that the diversity of Human kind is under threat, that the debate as it is presented is wrong because our responsibilities to each other is as Individuals; don't patronise me, join me in supporting Universal Principals.

...but, (and i am speaking generally, not just to you) you cannot call yourself Cypriot, if you place your ethnicity before (and above) a love for the Heritance that this island offers to all of us, and to all Mankind.
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Postby repulsewarrior » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:07 am

Klik, sustaining our identities as Persons is extremely important. google, ethnosphere. understand that more than the ecosphere, culture, the diversity that is "Mankind" dwindles at an even faster rate.

because Cyprus, or at least its Statesmen, have chosen to define the Principal of Bicommunality for all Mankind, new thinking is needed about the meaning of "State" and the meaning of "Nation". the debate in Cyprus as it is framed presently has led to stagnation; the same stagnation that exists in Turkey.

...think about that.

something is terribly wrong about our views, as Humans, because the world has changed; Nations are no longer States...

...within all modern states, there are (plural) Nations. indeed we are a tiny little island compared to the size, in land mass and population, of other countries. but our Intolerance is the same, if we divide ourselves as Blacks or Whites by any other name. indeed, our Problem needs a solution which is "Perfect", that is to say repeatable, providing a result which others can emulate toward their own betterment.

...furthermore, our demographics will not stay the same. we are members of the EU now, a very fluid population. we are the gateway to three continents, and our survival depends on our ability to facilitate social-exchange as a global partner. it is no joke when i remind us that the population of Cyprus is something a little over twelve million (although conservatively this will take two hundred years, if it does not happen sooner). if we resist these changes, they will overwhelm us, especially since desertification and ocean acidification are likely in a future which looms much closer still.
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