The Turkish Chimpanzees vs the Cypriot Bonobo ....
 Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 9:47 pm |
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| Eric dayi |
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| Joined: 14 Oct 2005 |
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| Oracle wrote: |
I still think preservation of the individual and his rights, is more important than the group /community rights. But the community has to provide the requirements to sustain the individual.
Or as Plato put it:
"Man is a tame or civilised animal; nevertheless, he requires proper instruction and a fortunate nature, and then of all the animals he becomes the most divine and most civilised; but if he be insufficiently or ill-educated he is the most savage of earthly creatures" |
You must be a right "animal".  |
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:10 pm |
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| miltiades |
| professor |
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| Joined: 13 Apr 2006 |
| Posts: 6618 |
| Location: UK |
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| Oracle wrote: |
"Man is a tame or civilised animal; nevertheless, he requires proper instruction and a fortunate nature, and then of all the animals he becomes the most divine and most civilised; but if he be insufficiently or ill-educated he is the most savage of earthly creatures" |
I think I have someone in mind who fits the bill !!!
In disguise of course !!! |
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:00 pm |
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| Oracle |
| vip |
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| Joined: 11 Feb 2008 |
| Posts: 8959 |
| Location: One step ahead of the Turks! |
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| miltiades wrote: |
| Oracle wrote: |
"Man is a tame or civilised animal; nevertheless, he requires proper instruction and a fortunate nature, and then of all the animals he becomes the most divine and most civilised; but if he be insufficiently or ill-educated he is the most savage of earthly creatures" |
I think I have someone in mind who fits the bill !!!
In disguise of course !!! |
Well I think it suits you Miltiades
I guess that's why you started that body piercing thread, to break it to us gently  |
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:19 am |
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| repulsewarrior |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Apr 2006 |
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| Location: Canada |
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| We can only judge ourselves as Individuals even if we want to be good "Greeks" or "Turks". |
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:31 am |
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| bilako22 |
| instructor |
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| Joined: 28 Dec 2007 |
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| BC Numismatics wrote: |
Eric,we all know that YOU ARE a faggot! You're also sick - in the head,that is!
Aidan. |
Is the best that you can do? Only two nasty words ? |
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:12 pm |
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| repulsewarrior |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 08 Apr 2006 |
| Posts: 1047 |
| Location: Canada |
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...as animals we do not judge ourselves, we make choices.
...as Humans by judging ourselves, we change. |
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:27 pm |
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| denizaksulu |
| vip |
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| Joined: 10 May 2007 |
| Posts: 14095 |
| Location: London, Ethnically Cleansed from Anglisidhes since 1963 |
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| Oracle wrote: |
An abridged version of an article to familiarise further the concept of our cousins' behaviour and its mirroring by us ....
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Bonobos are docile less aggressive or murderous, and possess many of the psychological traits we value most, including altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience and sensitivity.
Today our human world is characterised by war, oppression and terror.
Common chimps also have a reputation for aggression and bloodshed.
The Bonobo
Can they teach us to be more tolerant? What would it take to turn on our inner bonobo?
Nobody has been able to put their finger on exactly what makes this ape so different. What is becoming clear now though is that its behaviour is influenced less by its nature - the genes - and more by its environment, culture and learning. What bonobos eat, how they structure their social interactions, and their ability to pass on certain psychological attitudes from one generation to another all seem to play a part. That being so, there may indeed be lessons we can draw about how to make human society more peaceable.
At most, there are a few hundred thousand bonobos left in the wild.
…. On the face of it, their habitat looks very similar to a chimpanzee's, although the latter are much more widely distributed. The habits of the two species couldn't be more different, though.
Put bluntly, bonobos are nice because the environment they live in is nice.
….. but studies at zoos do indicate that chimpanzees flexibly adjust to new environments and are capable of holding their aggression in check. |
[Studies of other primates (Baboons) also show they can quickly learn to be more or less aggressive as their environment changes. Removal of aggressive males led to the appearance of a passive culture.]
| Quote: |
..... if aggression works, any animal will use it. "It isn't an inherited characteristic," Hohmann says. The converse is also true. "With the bonobos, team work currently pays off, violence does not. If their environment were to change, so too would their behaviours."
Where does this leave humans? As primates ourselves are we slaves to our environment or can we rise above it? "Our environment does shape our inner ape," argues de Waal. "We can cooperate like the bonobos and be competitive like the chimps,
…..Yet we have a remarkable capacity for peaceful cooperation not just in our daily dealings with each other but also in international organisations - consider, for instance, the ideas upon which the United Nations was founded.
From issue 2580 of New Scientist magazine, 30 November 2006, page 40-43 |
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Oracle, dont you think that these articles you are posting here are wasted? They are more suitable for entry in the 'Nature' magazine. Perhaps some others will find them stimulating or see any connection to the Cypprob.
It was only yesterday you were telling me of the need to travel further east than Turkey to find 'Turks'. You are confusing yourself. |
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:39 pm |
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| Oracle |
| vip |
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| Joined: 11 Feb 2008 |
| Posts: 8959 |
| Location: One step ahead of the Turks! |
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| denizaksulu wrote: |
| Oracle wrote: |
An abridged version of an article to familiarise further the concept of our cousins' behaviour and its mirroring by us ....
| Quote: |
Bonobos are docile less aggressive or murderous, and possess many of the psychological traits we value most, including altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience and sensitivity.
Today our human world is characterised by war, oppression and terror.
Common chimps also have a reputation for aggression and bloodshed.
The Bonobo
Can they teach us to be more tolerant? What would it take to turn on our inner bonobo?
Nobody has been able to put their finger on exactly what makes this ape so different. What is becoming clear now though is that its behaviour is influenced less by its nature - the genes - and more by its environment, culture and learning. What bonobos eat, how they structure their social interactions, and their ability to pass on certain psychological attitudes from one generation to another all seem to play a part. That being so, there may indeed be lessons we can draw about how to make human society more peaceable.
At most, there are a few hundred thousand bonobos left in the wild.
…. On the face of it, their habitat looks very similar to a chimpanzee's, although the latter are much more widely distributed. The habits of the two species couldn't be more different, though.
Put bluntly, bonobos are nice because the environment they live in is nice.
….. but studies at zoos do indicate that chimpanzees flexibly adjust to new environments and are capable of holding their aggression in check. |
[Studies of other primates (Baboons) also show they can quickly learn to be more or less aggressive as their environment changes. Removal of aggressive males led to the appearance of a passive culture.]
| Quote: |
..... if aggression works, any animal will use it. "It isn't an inherited characteristic," Hohmann says. The converse is also true. "With the bonobos, team work currently pays off, violence does not. If their environment were to change, so too would their behaviours."
Where does this leave humans? As primates ourselves are we slaves to our environment or can we rise above it? "Our environment does shape our inner ape," argues de Waal. "We can cooperate like the bonobos and be competitive like the chimps,
…..Yet we have a remarkable capacity for peaceful cooperation not just in our daily dealings with each other but also in international organisations - consider, for instance, the ideas upon which the United Nations was founded.
From issue 2580 of New Scientist magazine, 30 November 2006, page 40-43 |
|
Oracle, dont you think that these articles you are posting here are wasted? They are more suitable for entry in the 'Nature' magazine. Perhaps some others will find them stimulating or see any connection to the Cypprob.
It was only yesterday you were telling me of the need to travel further east than Turkey to find 'Turks'. You are confusing yourself. |
The take home message is very positive. If lower apes can be made less aggressive by improving their environment, then there is hope for us.
I want to put an end to the "racist" myths flying around that say we are so different as groups genetically, that we are what we are by nature, and so there is not point fighting it, we just have to live apart! 
The behavioral elements, which do differ greatly I must admit and make us appear worlds apart, can be manipulated / ameliorated with the right education and governmental guidance.
We are after all just animals, just Great Apes (although I found it exceedingly difficult to make a few forumers understand that fact without bruising their over-inflated egos) ... but we have a vast capacity for change, employment of Free Will and foresight aplenty!  |
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:49 pm |
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| denizaksulu |
| vip |
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| Joined: 10 May 2007 |
| Posts: 14095 |
| Location: London, Ethnically Cleansed from Anglisidhes since 1963 |
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| Oracle wrote: |
| denizaksulu wrote: |
| Oracle wrote: |
An abridged version of an article to familiarise further the concept of our cousins' behaviour and its mirroring by us ....
| Quote: |
Bonobos are docile less aggressive or murderous, and possess many of the psychological traits we value most, including altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience and sensitivity.
Today our human world is characterised by war, oppression and terror.
Common chimps also have a reputation for aggression and bloodshed.
The Bonobo
Can they teach us to be more tolerant? What would it take to turn on our inner bonobo?
Nobody has been able to put their finger on exactly what makes this ape so different. What is becoming clear now though is that its behaviour is influenced less by its nature - the genes - and more by its environment, culture and learning. What bonobos eat, how they structure their social interactions, and their ability to pass on certain psychological attitudes from one generation to another all seem to play a part. That being so, there may indeed be lessons we can draw about how to make human society more peaceable.
At most, there are a few hundred thousand bonobos left in the wild.
…. On the face of it, their habitat looks very similar to a chimpanzee's, although the latter are much more widely distributed. The habits of the two species couldn't be more different, though.
Put bluntly, bonobos are nice because the environment they live in is nice.
….. but studies at zoos do indicate that chimpanzees flexibly adjust to new environments and are capable of holding their aggression in check. |
[Studies of other primates (Baboons) also show they can quickly learn to be more or less aggressive as their environment changes. Removal of aggressive males led to the appearance of a passive culture.]
| Quote: |
..... if aggression works, any animal will use it. "It isn't an inherited characteristic," Hohmann says. The converse is also true. "With the bonobos, team work currently pays off, violence does not. If their environment were to change, so too would their behaviours."
Where does this leave humans? As primates ourselves are we slaves to our environment or can we rise above it? "Our environment does shape our inner ape," argues de Waal. "We can cooperate like the bonobos and be competitive like the chimps,
…..Yet we have a remarkable capacity for peaceful cooperation not just in our daily dealings with each other but also in international organisations - consider, for instance, the ideas upon which the United Nations was founded.
From issue 2580 of New Scientist magazine, 30 November 2006, page 40-43 |
|
Oracle, dont you think that these articles you are posting here are wasted? They are more suitable for entry in the 'Nature' magazine. Perhaps some others will find them stimulating or see any connection to the Cypprob.
It was only yesterday you were telling me of the need to travel further east than Turkey to find 'Turks'. You are confusing yourself. |
The take home message is very positive. If lower apes can be made less aggressive by improving their environment, then there is hope for us.
I want to put an end to the "racist" myths flying around that say we are so different as groups genetically, that we are what we are by nature, and so there is not point fighting it, we just have to live apart!
The behavioral elements, which do differ greatly I must admit and make us appear worlds apart, can be manipulated / ameliorated with the right education and governmental guidance.
We are after all just animals, just Great Apes (although I found it exceedingly difficult to make a few forumers understand that fact without bruising their over-inflated egos) ... but we have a vast capacity for change, employment of Free Will and foresight aplenty! |
Just two errors - typographical? Maybe. You are improving.
I am worried about your great apes. Their numbers are in decline; faster than the chimps. |
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:59 pm |
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| Oracle |
| vip |
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| Joined: 11 Feb 2008 |
| Posts: 8959 |
| Location: One step ahead of the Turks! |
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| denizaksulu wrote: |
| Oracle wrote: |
| denizaksulu wrote: |
| Oracle wrote: |
An abridged version of an article to familiarise further the concept of our cousins' behaviour and its mirroring by us ....
| Quote: |
Bonobos are docile less aggressive or murderous, and possess many of the psychological traits we value most, including altruism, compassion, empathy, kindness, patience and sensitivity.
Today our human world is characterised by war, oppression and terror.
Common chimps also have a reputation for aggression and bloodshed.
The Bonobo
Can they teach us to be more tolerant? What would it take to turn on our inner bonobo?
Nobody has been able to put their finger on exactly what makes this ape so different. What is becoming clear now though is that its behaviour is influenced less by its nature - the genes - and more by its environment, culture and learning. What bonobos eat, how they structure their social interactions, and their ability to pass on certain psychological attitudes from one generation to another all seem to play a part. That being so, there may indeed be lessons we can draw about how to make human society more peaceable.
At most, there are a few hundred thousand bonobos left in the wild.
…. On the face of it, their habitat looks very similar to a chimpanzee's, although the latter are much more widely distributed. The habits of the two species couldn't be more different, though.
Put bluntly, bonobos are nice because the environment they live in is nice.
….. but studies at zoos do indicate that chimpanzees flexibly adjust to new environments and are capable of holding their aggression in check. |
[Studies of other primates (Baboons) also show they can quickly learn to be more or less aggressive as their environment changes. Removal of aggressive males led to the appearance of a passive culture.]
| Quote: |
..... if aggression works, any animal will use it. "It isn't an inherited characteristic," Hohmann says. The converse is also true. "With the bonobos, team work currently pays off, violence does not. If their environment were to change, so too would their behaviours."
Where does this leave humans? As primates ourselves are we slaves to our environment or can we rise above it? "Our environment does shape our inner ape," argues de Waal. "We can cooperate like the bonobos and be competitive like the chimps,
…..Yet we have a remarkable capacity for peaceful cooperation not just in our daily dealings with each other but also in international organisations - consider, for instance, the ideas upon which the United Nations was founded.
From issue 2580 of New Scientist magazine, 30 November 2006, page 40-43 |
|
Oracle, dont you think that these articles you are posting here are wasted? They are more suitable for entry in the 'Nature' magazine. Perhaps some others will find them stimulating or see any connection to the Cypprob.
It was only yesterday you were telling me of the need to travel further east than Turkey to find 'Turks'. You are confusing yourself. |
The take home message is very positive. If lower apes can be made less aggressive by improving their environment, then there is hope for us.
I want to put an end to the "racist" myths flying around that say we are so different as groups genetically, that we are what we are by nature, and so there is not point fighting it, we just have to live apart!
The behavioral elements, which do differ greatly I must admit and make us appear worlds apart, can be manipulated / ameliorated with the right education and governmental guidance.
We are after all just animals, just Great Apes (although I found it exceedingly difficult to make a few forumers understand that fact without bruising their over-inflated egos) ... but we have a vast capacity for change, employment of Free Will and foresight aplenty! |
Just two errors - typographical? Maybe. You are improving.
I am worried about your great apes. Their numbers are in decline; faster than the chimps. |
Sorry .... son was showing me a cartoon in the Beano whilst I was typing.
Which declining Great Apes are you referring to GCs or TCs? 
(BTW Chimps are also Great Apes .... but don't overuse the term as it offends Eric and Big Al .... ). |
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