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Ergenekon ... The Killer Elite of Turkey.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Sun May 04, 2008 8:34 pm

Nikitas wrote:Shah said:

"Great story Phoenix, so what actually is the point of the thread?

Ergenekon is old news."

And herein lies the difference! If this had happened in a country where the rule of law is applied it would be in the headlines for weeks on end with untold followups till it is cleared up. Here, the conspiracy between the military and elite palyers is treated as "old news".


It does seem like premature sweeping under the carpet as "old news", when this was the first reference I had seen in the Western Press to Ergenekon, and a quick search suggests it has only recently been exposed.

So I assumed shahmaran meant the myth / legend was old news ..... not the Terrorist group (which is so new it has not made the classifications yet ..... or is that some deliberate omission? :? )

Still it looks like they should receive the exposure they deserve fully in the next few days ...
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Postby Get Real! » Sun May 04, 2008 8:38 pm

“The injured Turk healed by the she-wolf had children that grew in number…”

So is this a case of bestiality or was he/she/it impregnated by the second last Turk? :?
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Postby Oracle » Sun May 04, 2008 8:44 pm

Get Real! wrote:“The injured Turk healed by the she-wolf had children that grew in number…”

So is this a case of bestiality or was he/she/it impregnated by the second last Turk? :?


I guess this is their preferred revisionist account of their origins, over coming from Mongolia. :roll:
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Postby shahmaran » Sun May 04, 2008 9:49 pm

Nikitas wrote:Shah said:

"Great story Phoenix, so what actually is the point of the thread?

Ergenekon is old news."

And herein lies the difference! If this had happened in a country where the rule of law is applied it would be in the headlines for weeks on end with untold followups till it is cleared up. Here, the conspiracy between the military and elite palyers is treated as "old news".


I did not mean the legend Phoenix.

Similar cases has happened before, look out for the Susurluk incident when a car accident revealed a top mafia leader, politician and police man travelling in the same car.

The Ergenekon case is still an ongoing thing and far from being forgotten but the hype of it is gone obviously because its being investigated. I do read quite a few newspapers every day and i can assure you it is still being questioned.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 05, 2008 9:54 am

Nikitas wrote:Sounds like TMT finally made it to Turkey!


It is the other way round. We are looking at the Turkish deep state, or at least one strand of it. This is the entity that set up the TMT.
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Deep state

Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 05, 2008 12:32 pm

The entity referred to as the "deep state" in Turkey has its origins in NATO's so-called stay-behind paramilitary organisations. It is the equivalent of the organisation known as "Sheepskin' in Greece, which as the quote below shows has also been the subject of much controversy. Unfortunately, the sister organisation in Turkey has spread its tentacles very deeply and widely.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution ... 7_November

In December 2005, journalist Kleanthis Grivas published an article in To Proto Thema, a Greek Sunday newspaper, in which he accused "Sheepskin", the Greek branch of Gladio, NATO's stay-behind paramilitary organization during the Cold War, of the assassination of CIA station chief Richard Welch in Athens in 1975, as well as of the assassination of Stephen Saunders in 2000. This was denied by the US State Department, who responded that "the Greek terrorist organization '17 November' was responsible for both assassinations" [7], and asserted that Grivas's central piece of evidence had been a document ("Westmoreland Field Manual") which the State department, as well as a Congressional inquiry had dismissed as a Soviet forgery. It should be noted the documents make no specific mention of Greece, November 17th, nor Welch. The State Department also highlighted the fact that, in the case of Richard Welch, "Grivas bizarrely accuses the CIA of playing a role in the assassination of one of its own senior officials" as well as the Greek government's statements to the effect that the "stay behind" network had been dismantled in 1988.
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Postby Oracle » Mon May 05, 2008 1:04 pm

Tim Drayton wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Sounds like TMT finally made it to Turkey!


It is the other way round. We are looking at the Turkish deep state, or at least one strand of it. This is the entity that set up the TMT.


That Ergenekon are part of Turkey's "deep state" is acknowledged in the articles ... but do you have any evidence that they were around since the 50's when TMT evolved and how much input do you think Denktash had in forming Ergenekon?... since he was involved with TMT.

The organization was set up by Mr Rauf Denktash. "I had set up the TMT with a few friends...Everybody thought that I was the leader, but I was not. I was political advisor. Immediately after forming it I handed it over... The leaders were former army officers from Turkey."
(The Times, 20.1.1978)
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 05, 2008 1:38 pm

Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
Nikitas wrote:Sounds like TMT finally made it to Turkey!


It is the other way round. We are looking at the Turkish deep state, or at least one strand of it. This is the entity that set up the TMT.


That Ergenekon are part of Turkey's "deep state" is acknowledged in the articles ... but do you have any evidence that they were around since the 50's when TMT evolved and how much input do you think Denktash had in forming Ergenekon?... since he was involved with TMT.

The organization was set up by Mr Rauf Denktash. "I had set up the TMT with a few friends...Everybody thought that I was the leader, but I was not. I was political advisor. Immediately after forming it I handed it over... The leaders were former army officers from Turkey."
(The Times, 20.1.1978)


The Special War Department, Turkey's stay-behind paramilitary force, was established on 27 September 1952, according to page 44 of Ecevit Kilic's history of this organisation. There is no doubt that it was in existence at the time the TMT was established.

On page 55 of the same book, Kilic claims:

"In this period [1955] the basic operational area of the department was Cyprus. Officers trained in special war techniques were sent to the island in ones or twos. These officers, who organised the Turkish Cypriots, returned after a while and others went in their place."

On page 247 of Niyazi Kizilyurek's book Mıllıyetçilik Kıskacında Kıbrıs we find a quote from Major Ismail Tansu's memoirs describing how the Special War Department invited Dr Kutchuk and Rauf Denktash to a meeting in Ankara in June 1958 to decide which of them would be made the Special War Department's first line contact in Cyprus. The reason for this meeting was, according to Tansu:

"In a meeting held after the meeting between General Karabelen [the head of the Special war Department], lieutenant colonel Vuruskan and myself, we discussed which of these two leaders we should require to perform first-line active services in the course of the process of setting up the TMT."

They decided in favour of Denktash.

In light of all the available evidence, there is no doubt in my mind that the Turkish deep state was involved in setting up the TMT from the very outset.
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Postby Oracle » Mon May 05, 2008 1:51 pm

Thanks Tim ...

So basically both TMT and Ergenekon are products (branches) of Turkey's "deep state", the former to fight in Cyprus and the latter to fight at home.

Do you have any idea when Ergenekon first practiced as an organisation? ..... since the articles allude to only a few years ago at most.
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Postby karma » Mon May 05, 2008 2:56 pm

Oracle wrote:Do you have any idea when Ergenekon first practiced as an organisation? ..... since the articles allude to only a few years ago at most.


it was first practised a thousand year ago...the period of Il Kagan in Central Asia steppes..
it is a long story which I can translate for u to Greek incase u pay cash..
the story is full of poems and stuff, the translation is not an easy work + I have a child to raise..
:cry:
:cry:

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_Destan%C4%B1
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