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Ergenekon ... The Killer Elite of Turkey.

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Mon May 05, 2008 3:30 pm

karma wrote:
Oracle wrote:Do you have any idea when Ergenekon first practiced as an organisation? ..... since the articles allude to only a few years ago at most.


it was first practised a thousand year ago...the period of Il Kagan in Central Asia steppes..
it is a long story which I can translate for u to Greek incase u pay cash..
the story is full of poems and stuff, the translation is not an easy work + I have a child to raise..
:cry:
:cry:

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_Destan%C4%B1


Thanks karma ... we are now quite familiar with the myth, and a fine tale it is too! :D

But the thread is about the Terrorist organisation which has taken the name of the myth.
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Postby Tim Drayton » Mon May 05, 2008 3:57 pm

As far as I know, the name Ergenekon in this sense has only recently began to be used in connection with this particular case. Apparently the documentary evidence in the Ergenekon case exceeds four million pages.
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Postby karma » Mon May 05, 2008 4:01 pm

Oracle wrote:
karma wrote:
Oracle wrote:Do you have any idea when Ergenekon first practiced as an organisation? ..... since the articles allude to only a few years ago at most.


it was first practised a thousand year ago...the period of Il Kagan in Central Asia steppes..
it is a long story which I can translate for u to Greek incase u pay cash..
the story is full of poems and stuff, the translation is not an easy work + I have a child to raise..
:cry:
:cry:

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_Destan%C4%B1


Thanks karma ... we are now quite familiar with the myth, and a fine tale it is too! :D

But the thread is about the Terrorist organisation which has taken the name of the myth.


well, in that case the translation costs a bit more coz I ll have to risk my life and my 87 cousins lives when I tell you the whole story..
look forward to hearing from you soon (in PM), shhhhhhh :wink:
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Postby Nikitas » Mon May 05, 2008 4:17 pm

"As far as I know, the name Ergenekon in this sense has only recently began to be used in connection with this particular case. Apparently the documentary evidence in the Ergenekon case exceeds four million pages."

Tim that post made me laugh. A secret organisation which produces FOUR MILLION pages of documents is funny. I mean that is clear evidence that the majority of members are bureaucrats. The DA should have no problem where to look for them!
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Postby Oracle » Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:48 am

The scarves are off again :lol: ....

Fears for Turkish ruling party as court overturns headscarf law
Robert Tait in Istanbul

The Guardian, Friday June 6 2008

Turkey's highest court yesterday overturned a politically controversial law allowing women students to wear the Muslim headscarf at university, dealing a blow to the country's Islamist-leaning government and its chances of survival.

In a decision with significant implications for Turkey's future, the constitutional court upheld an appeal from opposition parties that the law - passed by parliament in February - posed a threat to its 85-year-old secular system.

The headscarf issue has become one of the most highly charged in Turkish politics, with the ruling justice and development party (AKP) seeing it as a question of religious freedom, while opponents portray it as a potential gateway to a more Islamic society. Hijab-wearers have complained of being expelled from classes by professors, while others have worn wigs to get around the ban.

The ruling was a setback for the AKP, which is embroiled in a separate case - also before the constitutional court - to outlaw the party and ban its officials from politics for alleged anti-secular activity.

"This is the harshest decision the court could have reached," said Soli Ozel, an analyst at Istanbul's Bilgi university. "It gives us a clear sense of how the court is going to vote on the closure case."

Banning the party could plunge Turkey's political system into turmoil, while further jeopardising its already fraught attempt to join the European Union. The European commission president, Jose Manuel Barroso, has warned that the country's application could be frozen if the AKP is outlawed.

The AKP has won over many European officials by espousing a democratising agenda seen as key to Turkey's EU membership.

But its domestic critics argue that the party's liberal rhetoric conceals an agenda of imposing an Islamic society by stealth.
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Postby denizaksulu » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:53 am

Nikitas wrote:Shah said:

"Great story Phoenix, so what actually is the point of the thread?

Ergenekon is old news."

And herein lies the difference! If this had happened in a country where the rule of law is applied it would be in the headlines for weeks on end with untold followups till it is cleared up. Here, the conspiracy between the military and elite palyers is treated as "old news".



..........and ofcourse everything is/was hunky-dory in Cyprus. :roll: :roll:

The only relevance to the Cyprob is that both Ergenekon and Phoenix/Oracle are myths. End of. Best left on library shelves for kids to read. :lol:
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Postby denizaksulu » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:58 am

Get Real! wrote:“The injured Turk healed by the she-wolf had children that grew in number…”

So is this a case of bestiality or was he/she/it impregnated by the second last Turk? :?



You Greek seeded so and so, your ancient history is full of all sorts of 'activities' that I will not mention. Where do you get off GR. Clutching at straws again. Get a life. :roll: :roll:
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Postby CopperLine » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:22 am

Nikitas wrote:Shah said:

"Great story Phoenix, so what actually is the point of the thread?

Ergenekon is old news."

And herein lies the difference! If this had happened in a country where the rule of law is applied it would be in the headlines for weeks on end with untold followups till it is cleared up. Here, the conspiracy between the military and elite palyers is treated as "old news".


Maybe Nikitas, but your premiss ("If this happened in a country where the rule of law is applied ...) is mistaken. That is to say the historical record doesn't support your premiss nor your conclusion. See, for example, in the case of the UK Nick Davies' excellent recent book "Flat earth news" Chatto & Windus, London. 2008. Or consider the events of Bloody Sunday (1972) over which a commission of enquiry was finally set up in 1998 (the Saville Inquiry) to report within one year - it still has not reported ! "Untold [media] follow ups until it is cleared up" ? No way. I could give you dozens of other examples.


Incidentally, the Turkish 'deep state' is probably at its deepest in TRNC. I'm not suggesting at all that 'old news' is not permanently relevant and significant to what is going on to day. The deep state has to be exposed to democratic scrutiny, accountability and, most importantly, its definitive rejection.
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Postby Oracle » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:44 pm

Eeermm ...... I'm not sure anymore :?

Looks like the headscarves are back on again to restore faith in Erdogan .. (his wife says so! )

Turkey court blocks moves over headscarves

By Hidir Goktas, Reuters / The Independent
Friday, 6 June 2008

Turkey's ruling AK Party are holding an emergency meeting today to discuss how to respond to a top court's ruling to overturn a government-led reform to lift a ban on Muslim headscarves at university.

Analysts said the ruling by the Constitutional Court, the highest judicial body in Turkey, was the most serious setback for the AK Party since it came to power in 2002 and posed a serious threat to its survival.

Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan will chair the AK Party meeting, starting at 1200 GMT, his office said.

The now-defeated headscarf amendment plays a central role in a separate case that seeks to close the AK Party for anti-secular activities, and ban 71 members, including the prime minister and the president, from belonging to a political party for five years.

The headscarf reform has rekindled a decades-long dispute over the role of Islam in a country of 70 million that is officially secular but predominantly Muslim and has yet to reconcile the two sides.

The Constitutional Court is expected to rule on the closure case brought by the Court of Appeals chief prosecutor in the coming months.

Analysts expect the AK Party to be outlawed, although some say the court could instead decide to punish the party's leaders given that forming a new political party, were the AK Party to be banned, would be easy under Turkish electoral law.

"This verdict will affect the closure case negatively," wrote Mustafa Unal, a columnist for religious-leaning daily Zaman.

Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek dismissed the connection between the cases, saying "let's not compare apples with pears".

The political uncertainty has hit lira and bonds.

Analysts fear that as the AK Party, born of a coalition of former Islamists, centre-right politicians and nationalists, fights for survival, reforms will be put on hold.

Turkey's secularist establishment, including army generals and judges, suspects the AK Party of harbouring a hidden agenda.
The party denies the charges of Islamist activities, which it regards as an attempt by arch-secularist opponents to dislodge a government with a large parliamentary majority.

The government has won praise for securing European Union-accession talks status in 2005 and pushing through political and economic reforms, although the reform process has since slowed.

The courts and the military see themselves as guardians of the country's strict separation of religion and politics, which is rooted in the foundation of the modern state in the 1920s from the ruins of the Ottoman Empire.

The AK Party says the headscarf is a matter of individual religious freedom but secularists see it as part of a long-term government strategy to boost the role of religion in Turkey.

While many Turkish intellectuals criticised Erdogan for pushing ahead with the headscarf reform without seeking to appease those who opposed lifting the ban, they see such involvement by the courts as undemocratic.

"(The ruling) is not a surprise to me because I know that in Turkey not only the official ideology, but also the judiciary is illiberal," wrote columnist Taha Akyol in newspaper Milliyet.
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Postby Oracle » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:30 pm

The Deep State really has it in for Erdogan ... even if AKP can re-form under a different name...

Turkish PM fights for survival with plea for Islamists and secular judges to avoid clash·

Erdogan hopes to deter court closure of AKP

Constitutional battle after new ruling on headscarves

Robert Tait in Istanbul The Guardian, Wednesday June 11 2008

Turkey's embattled prime minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, launched an attempt to save his political skin yesterday by seeking to lower tensions in a power struggle with the state's secular establishment that threatens to split the country, close his party and oust him from office.

After days of simmering government anger, Erdogan pleaded with his supporters and Turkey's most senior judges to avoid a "clash of powers" following a ruling that overturned a law allowing female university students to wear the Islamic headscarf.

"Everyone should refrain from actions that make the rule of law, absolute supremacy of the constitution and our constitutional institutions matters of discussion," he said in a televised address to parliament in the capital, Ankara. "No one should try to benefit from such attempts. We have to take Turkey out of such a 'clash of powers' environment."

His tone was markedly more conciliatory than that of other government figures and appeared calculated to avoid antagonising the constitutional court before it hears a separate case calling for the ruling justice and development party (AKP) to be shut down, and Erdogan and 70 other leading figures to be banned from politics for five years for alleged anti-secularism.

Some AKP members had taken a much harder line after the court last Thursday ruled that the headscarf was a symbol of political Islam that threatened Turkey's secular system established under Atatürk. Many MPs accused it of usurping the government's powers and demanded parliamentary action to annul the ruling. But Erodgan merely called on the court to explain its actions.

"Legislative powers belong only to the elected parliament. No one has the right to put itself in the place of the legislative," he said.

Last week's ruling, which prompted the government to hold six hours of emergency talks, has led many to conclude that Erdogan is doomed when the court delivers its verdict in the party closure case, which is expected in the autumn. The case is based on a 162-page indictment compiled by the chief prosecutor. It cites the headscarf law, a host of Erdogan's statements and AKP actions at local government level, including bans on alcohol sales.

Some analysts depicted yesterday's remarks as a last-ditch effort by the prime minister to placate his enemies in the judiciary and armed forces, the ultimate arbiters of Turkish political power.

"Erdogan is trying to save his skin but it's too late," said Cengiz Aktar, a professor on EU affairs at Istanbul's Bahçesehir University. "The guy has been yielding to the demands of the establishment for weeks but they don't want to listen any more. He is considered an outsider and there are a lot of personal animosities. Many people in the old establishment simply hate him - they think he represents a sort of Antichrist.

"Even if he does survive, what then? This country's constitution was not designed for reform but to protect the state against its citizens. The era of reform is over."

Soli Ozel, an analyst at Bilgi University, said Erdogan was trying to prevent possible military intervention: "The whole aim of the closure case is to get Erdogan's head. But further polarisation doesn't suit the AKP's interests. It's much better to form a new party than be more confrontational and bring about a final clash - the ultimate form of which would be a military takeover."

The long-standing headscarf ban was passed by parliament in February to much acclaim from religious conservatives, who saw it as ending unfair discrimination, but it was greeted with dismay and protests from secularists.

The AKP, which has roots in political Islam but draws support from across the middle class, championed the reform on grounds of religious freedom and insisted that it posed no threat to secularism.

Analysts expect the AKP, which won an emphatic majority at last year's general election, to re-form under a different name if it is closed down. Some say the party's parliamentary majority would allow the new party to continue in office without Erdogan and the other figures subject to a possible ban.
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