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the illicit antiquities trade through Cyprus

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Eliko » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:19 am

miltiades wrote:
Eliko wrote:miltiades NEVER reads, (or if he does cannot understand the content) he just voices the opinions of those that lead him by the nose. :lol: :wink:

Eliko , I can not take you seriously , is the unaesthetic avatar you use indicative of your cranky ideas ?




miltiades, I take it that you still find my avatar a little disturbing, I am sorry you feel so strongly about such a small matter and I would remove or change it (as I did in the past to suit you ) were it not for the fact that when I did (at your request) you immediately considered it's removal as some kind of triumph over me.

My previous avatar (which was the flag of Cuba) I was obliged to remove since you periodically made insulting remarks about a man I greatly admired, Fidel Castro, I could not bear to be the one responsible for possibly inviting such insults and removed it out of deference to him.

My present avatar was given to me by Stout, he was a member for a short time but found the abuse a little too strong for him, he has withdrawn from the forum and is reluctant to return (due to the abuse) a great pity but his choice.

One wonders why YOU do not adopt an avatar miltiades, perhaps the flags of either Israel or America may suit you since you 'fawn' so well at every available opportunity to do so.

Or could it be that you are reserving your choice until some triumphant event takes place, at which time you will adopt the emblem of the victor ?.

Have a care miltiades, you may end up fluttering the flag of Iraq, the ways of Allah are strange indeed my friend. :lol: :lol: :wink:
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Postby halil » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:33 am

samarkeolog ,
what do you thing about below search about TC's .
it has been done TC's historian now he is MP in northern Cyprus.



TURKISH CYPRIOTS
After the conquer of Cyprus in 1571, Ottoman administration sent some people to the island as a fact of their settlement policy. There were two waves of people settlement to Cyprus. The first one was, from 1572 to the end of the XVI. century and the second, was from 1699 to 1745. The main paper about this settlement is a ferman of Sultan Selim the Second, which was written 20th September 1572. In this ferman it was ordered to the governors of Anatolia, Karamania, Zulkadiria and Rum provinces to select the people whom didn’t have enough land to make agriculture, wasn’t registered in a village population, who was known as a rebel (Turkmen population of those provinces was described with all of these criterias) and beside them ten percent of the industrial people; for sending Cyprus, by force. First of all, we have to say that all of those provinces were old Turkmen tribe governments (called Beylik), which was recently collaberated with the empire. It is known that, population of those provinces were Turkmens. For example, Zulkadiriya people were a mixture of Yureghir and Kynyk tribes and some independent clans, which was called as Zulkadiria Ulusu. Karamania people were Bozdoğan tribe, which was coming from main Oghouz branch, Üçoklar. The people of Rum province was a mixture of Beghdili, Bayat and other tribes which was coming from main branch Bozoklar and even a part of province was called Bozok, itself. And Anatolia province was another Turkmen area which even İbn-Batuta described as a “ Turkmen Yatagy” (Bed of Turkmens) on the Xll. Century.**
Beside of this main “ferman” there are some separated, fermans, which are ordering to settle people Cyprus by force. For example, we’ve found two fermans, written in 1576 and 1577, to the governor of Bozok District and was ordering send the people to Cyprus by force which was suspected them as supporters of Is mail Saphevi of Iran, the Shah of Kizilbash heterodox Islamic belief of Turkmens. (29 no. Muhimme defteri Ferman no: 490 and 30. No Muhimme Defteri, Ferman No: 488) And another ferman, which was written at the same year and ordering to send Ramazan of the Bozdoğan (a branch of Üçoks) to Cyprus, with his family and all of the supporters of him with their own families because of a rebellition. (That rebels called Koseli and even now there is a family living at the settlement area, which is called Koseli)( Anadolu’da Turkmen Aşiretleri Ahmet Refik) In another sample, there is a ferman, written 1576 and ordered to the Hamiteli district’s governor, to send the famous rebel Karahaci to Cyprus. (64 No.lu Muhimme defteri) Even in those days, at the old settlement area if somebody knocks a door at night time and the owners of the house ask, who is it that knocking the door, it is a folkloric joke to say: “ It’s me: Karahaci!” for freighting the hosts!
According to these fermans, it is known that, from 1572 to the end of XVI. Century, 8000 families settled to Cyprus, instead of planned 12000 families. (Muhimme defteri no.43 241 sayılı hüküm) We can easily understand that most of the population which was settled to the island was Turkmens of Anatolia because there is a paper in Ottoman Archive which is ordering “only Turks and Muslims must be sent to Cyprus”. (Mevkufat Defteri No.2551) We have to notice that, according to Ottoman official literature, “Turk” means, Turkmen and Yoruk. Dr.Cengiz Orhonlu, an author of Ottoman Settlement Policy, has written that, Turkmen’s of Karaman Province, was sent to Cyprus and settled to the island by force. (Milletlerarası Kıbrıs Meseleleri Kongresi, Ankara 1969) According to another author, Dr. Faruk Sumer, grand parents of Turkish Cypriots were the Turkmens of Cukurova. (Faruk Sumer, Oğuzlar- Turkmenler, s.148) This was the first wave.
After the second withdrawal of the Ottoman army from Vienna, Ottoman rulers realized that their weak point was, the low level of production and tax incomes. Ottoman administration decided to settle all of the tribes for rising agricultural producing and increasing incoming taxes. In 1699 another ferman was published which was ordering all of the Yoruk tribes,*** must be settled to Cyprus by force. This ferman was the beginning the second wave, of the settlement of Cyprus, by Turkmen tribes. Turkmen tribes rebelled again of course and till 1856 these rebellitions continued. But from 1700 to 1745 some other Turkmen tribes had sent to Cyprus and settled there by force. In this period, almost 2500 new families settled to Cyprus from, Beghdili, Bayat, Avshar, Kachar and Bozdoghan tribes. As it is known the first three tribes are the sub-branches of Bozoks and the fourth one, Uchoks. People from the most famous clan of Beghdili tribe, Şamlu or Dımışklı, (which is called Şahseven, Hudabendelü, Aynallu and Karagözlü in Iran), Bentoglu clan and Koroglu clan of Avshar Tribe, Kachar Halil clan of Kachars, Karahacılı clan of Bozdoghans from Yureghir tribe, Gediklü clan of Bayad tribe, Karakeçili clan from Kayı tribe have sent to Cyprus. ***(For details, I can suggest The History of Turkish Cypriots, v.ll)
In two waves, more than 50000 Turkmens was settled to Cyprus. The main settlement area, was Mesaria and Mesoto provinces, which is a step and alike with central Asia. Previous Latin farms were given to them as villages, but till the beginning of XX.Century they were busy with their sheep and camel flocks and didn’t interest with agricultural life. During all over those ages, under Ottoman rule in Cyprus, several rebellitions had taken place towards the rulers by the Turkmens of Cyprus, as their relatives had done in Anatolia and Syria. Although, at the end when the age of nationalism came, they felt themselves as Modern Turks but even today, Turkish Cypriots, are still insisting that they have a special identity and some differences between with the dominant Turkish identity, in modern Turkey.
To say the truth, somebody cannot say easily that they are not right. The nomad life style in the Anatolia and Syria at the far past; and living in close villages in an island, for centuries, gave them a chance (?) for saving some features of their old life. As a result of these conditions, Turkish Cypriots have saved their older features then Ottoman times, because they had never integrated with Ottoman culture at the past. It means that they had stayed as nomads from the beginning of their history to the beginning to the time of nationalism. And when somebody talks about their pre-modern features, he/she cannot find anything else from their culture, which they have carried, from Horasan or Maveraünnehir. The time, which is lying between nomadic life and nationalism in ordinary communities, is a lost time for Turkish Cypriots. They jumped from nomadic culture to nationalism.
And for our day, when we talked about Turkish Cypriot Identity, first of all we can find a special Turkish dialect that we can say that it is carried from the days of Dede Korkut Stories of XII. Century. Turkish Cypriots, have too many words from the Turkmen dialect which most of them have been forgotten in Istanbul dialect. Not only forgotten words, the structure of sentences of Turkish Cypriot dialect does not belong to the dialect of Istanbul but also it is from their old Turkmen dialect. Because of it, a Turkish Cypriot, can easily understand an Azerbaijani or a Turkmen from Kerkhuk and with a little care even a Turkmen from Merv, Askabat or somewhere else.
All of the old Turkmen folkloric beliefs are still alive among the Turkish Cypriots. The cult of parents, the cult of holy trees, the cult of smoking, the cult of water and fire. A researcher can easily find several folkloric habitualness, based from Shamanism. For example do not cut nails at nighttime, do not have hair cut at night e.g. the belief of “Albasması”, is steel very popular in Turkish Cypriots. Or, Nevruz is steel alive in some villages and called “ Mart Dokuzu”... Beside them, most of the folkloric traditions are same with Turkmenistan. For example, wedding traditions which I have red at the ******* were same with the old Turkish Cypriot traditions. The music instrument named “Dilli Dudhuk” carries the same name in Cyprus, instead of its Anatolian names, “kaval” or “ney”...

By Dr.Nazim Beratli
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Postby Get Real! » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:43 am

Eliko wrote:miltiades, I take it that you still find my avatar a little disturbing,...

I can’t for the life of me figure out why an otherwise intelligent fellow like yourself, wastes so much of his breath with forum sewerage… :?
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Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:05 pm

Eliko, why do you think Castro built a Greek Orthodox church in Cuba?
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Postby repulsewarrior » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:40 pm

halil, the article presents two points I find of note.

The Turkish State forced it's citizens to settle in Cyprus. The motive of the Ottomans for Cyprus , we see, is for its exploitation in tax revenues and not as a bulwark to their own cultural past.

These island dwellers, in this case Turkish, lived in isolation, and sustained a culture which is more 'refined' in comparison to Turkish culture in Turkey. They are different, they were able to preserve more of the traditions of the past which are their own, before the rise of Ottoman power.

All of the old Turkmen folkloric beliefs are still alive among the Turkish Cypriots. The cult of parents, the cult of holy trees, the cult of smoking, the cult of water and fire. A researcher can easily find several folkloric habitualness, based from Shamanism. For example do not cut nails at nighttime, do not have hair cut at night e.g. the belief of “Albasması”, is steel very popular in Turkish Cypriots. Or, Nevruz is steel alive in some villages and called “ Mart Dokuzu”... Beside them, most of the folkloric traditions are same with Turkmenistan. For example, wedding traditions which I have red at the ******* were same with the old Turkish Cypriot traditions. The music instrument named “Dilli Dudhuk” carries the same name in Cyprus, instead of its Anatolian names, “kaval” or “ney”...


I find this passage most revealing, in terms of a Cypriot Culture as well because in all these traditions Greek Cypriot life in villages was not at all unlike these. (many examples are comparable) but...what do i know because I came from a "mixed" village.
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Postby halil » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:56 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:halil, the article presents two points I find of note.

The Turkish State forced it's citizens to settle in Cyprus. The motive of the Ottomans for Cyprus , we see, is for its exploitation in tax revenues and not as a bulwark to their own cultural past.

These island dwellers, in this case Turkish, lived in isolation, and sustained a culture which is more 'refined' in comparison to Turkish culture in Turkey. They are different, they were able to preserve more of the traditions of the past which are their own, before the rise of Ottoman power.

All of the old Turkmen folkloric beliefs are still alive among the Turkish Cypriots. The cult of parents, the cult of holy trees, the cult of smoking, the cult of water and fire. A researcher can easily find several folkloric habitualness, based from Shamanism. For example do not cut nails at nighttime, do not have hair cut at night e.g. the belief of “Albasması”, is steel very popular in Turkish Cypriots. Or, Nevruz is steel alive in some villages and called “ Mart Dokuzu”... Beside them, most of the folkloric traditions are same with Turkmenistan. For example, wedding traditions which I have red at the ******* were same with the old Turkish Cypriot traditions. The music instrument named “Dilli Dudhuk” carries the same name in Cyprus, instead of its Anatolian names, “kaval” or “ney”...


I find this passage most revealing, in terms of a Cypriot Culture as well because in all these traditions Greek Cypriot life in villages was not at all unlike these. (many examples are comparable) but...what do i know because I came from a "mixed" village.


thanks for your comments .
i don't know much about mixed villages but i can tell you still we are keep saying our kids not to cut their nails at night or don't give eggs to anybody night times .they are old sayings but still we do shopping from markets buying eggs at night times.
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Postby roseandchan » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:30 pm

i agree that turkey forced people to live here. my friend in uk is cyprus born but is only 3 generation as his grandfather was sent here years ago. for him its hard as the tc don't fully accept him. some of his family are still in cyprus but some have gone back to istanbul, hes in london and won't return.
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Postby miltiades » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:35 pm

Get Real! wrote:
Eliko wrote:miltiades, I take it that you still find my avatar a little disturbing,...

I can’t for the life of me figure out why an otherwise intelligent fellow like yourself, wastes so much of his breath with forum sewerage… :?


Don't be so hard on your self GR , I'm sure that a good wash will get you looking half decent , I'm not so sure that all the debris can be washed away from your brain but then even if it did wash out , like sewage it will fill up again. Any contact made yet with Blackwater !!
What a Plonker !!
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Postby miltiades » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:48 pm

Eliko wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Eliko wrote:miltiades NEVER reads, (or if he does cannot understand the content) he just voices the opinions of those that lead him by the nose. :lol: :wink:

Eliko , I can not take you seriously , is the unaesthetic avatar you use indicative of your cranky ideas ?




miltiades, I take it that you still find my avatar a little disturbing, I am sorry you feel so strongly about such a small matter and I would remove or change it (as I did in the past to suit you ) were it not for the fact that when I did (at your request) you immediately considered it's removal as some kind of triumph over me.

My previous avatar (which was the flag of Cuba) I was obliged to remove since you periodically made insulting remarks about a man I greatly admired, Fidel Castro, I could not bear to be the one responsible for possibly inviting such insults and removed it out of deference to him.

My present avatar was given to me by Stout, he was a member for a short time but found the abuse a little too strong for him, he has withdrawn from the forum and is reluctant to return (due to the abuse) a great pity but his choice.

One wonders why YOU do not adopt an avatar miltiades, perhaps the flags of either Israel or America may suit you since you 'fawn' so well at every available opportunity to do so.

Or could it be that you are reserving your choice until some triumphant event takes place, at which time you will adopt the emblem of the victor ?.

Have a care miltiades, you may end up fluttering the flag of Iraq, the ways of Allah are strange indeed my friend. :lol: :lol: :wink:

Eliko , another one of your heroes is Mugabe , he has achieved for Zimbabwe just as much as Castro has , both dictators , both ruthless and both tin pot little despots , not forgetting your principal hero Osama Bin Laden. Your indeed a very confused individual , I think that the influence exerted on you by the inexorable GR , you know the one with primitive ideological notions whom you supported in his quest to declare war on Turkey with the help of mercenaries of course , has demoted any reasoning that you may have possessed , regardless how minimal it might have been , to a big fat zero !!!
You actually fail even to see how distasteful your avatar is , a sign of vulnerability and a sure sign that your susceptible to bouts of depression !!
I do not dislike you Eliko , I have made this very clear in the past , I just cant stomach your ideas and your constant denigration of the Western world. Take no notice of Rambo , he is an absolute arsehole that needs locking up for distributing on air such jeopardous unadulterated ...shit !!
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Postby Oracle » Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:38 pm

Miltiades... have you had time to read samarkeolog's blog yet ? :lol:
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