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the illicit antiquities trade through Cyprus

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:00 am

Get Real! wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Eliko wrote:
miltiades wrote:Sleep well Eliko , its good for the brain cells , the thinking ones !!!

Goodnight and God Bless you and your family miltiades. :angel:

Thanks Eliko , best wishes to you also and your family.

What is this shit the Waltons? :?


Goodnight also GR! :wink:
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Postby Get Real! » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:03 am

Oracle wrote:
Get Real! wrote:
miltiades wrote:
Eliko wrote:
miltiades wrote:Sleep well Eliko , its good for the brain cells , the thinking ones !!!

Goodnight and God Bless you and your family miltiades. :angel:

Thanks Eliko , best wishes to you also and your family.

What is this shit the Waltons? :?

Goodnight also GR! :wink:

:? yo
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Postby samarkeolog » Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:53 pm

Oracle wrote:
samarkeolog wrote:
Oracle wrote:I was wondering what this had to do with the Cyprus Problem ..... Then I realised it is presented as an example of the mine of misinformation sponsored by Turkey and manufactured to make everyone think it is the innocent victim of all these other evil-doing countries around it ...


Do you mean that I showed, or that I spread, the misinformation sponsored by Turkey? Given there were separate posts on the Turkish deep state's false-flag terrorism, its alliance with the KLA and its use of Turkish Hizbullah and the Grey Wolves, I presume the former. Still, I do think it's worth pointing out that yes, the Turkish community, the Turkish state, the Turkish military and the Turkish deep state are all very different entities.

Just as I presume you would not like the Greek community to be punished for Papadopoulo's and Ioannidi's and IDEA's actions, or the Greek Cypriot community for Griva's or Georgadji's or EOKA-B's, so you should not blame the Turkish community for the Grey Wolves' activities, or the Turkish Cypriot community for TMT-B's.


The sentiment is fine. The reality is something else. This is where an author's self-assessed impartiality can let him down.

The weight of condemnations is very strong on Greek Cypriot connections, with much effort gone into gleaning all possible links to pad out your biased view on the enormity of the GCs' crimes. Such an equal effort is not apparent in anything to do with Turkish connections. The pro-Turkish bias is obvious because it is heavy with omissions.

Your blog is pure spin; the sort of white-wash political parties attempt every few decades to re-emerge as "New".

It is indeed another revisionist compilation, for the Turkish deep-state clean-up operation, of their dirty campaign of terror spanning more than 50 years.


I said that 'the situation in the North is much more yozlaşmış [degenerate], much more rezalet [fucked=up], than it is in the South'.

Did I say anything about Greece and southern Cyprus remotely like:

Moreover, in Turkey and northern Cyprus, Turkish politicians, government agents, police and militias, militaries, security organizations, ultranationalist terrorists, nationalist, racist or right-wing extremist groups and heroin traffickers (who also smuggle NATO military equipment), all collaborate (and sometimes compete) as a deep state, laundering their money through primarily northern Cypriot banks, brothels and casinos (where al Qaeda, too, do their offshore money laundering).


Indeed, after that, I said, 'Greece and Greek Cypriot southern Cyprus do not appear to have similar large, organised and powerful para-states'.
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Re: the illicit antiquities trade through Cyprus

Postby samarkeolog » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:47 pm

Oracle wrote:
samarkeolog wrote:It is simply absurd for you to complain that my 'allegations' are 'unsupported', with 'no sources of reference', when as far as I know, every single claim has a link to the sources of reference that support my claims; indeed, moments ago, you were recommending I provided fewer links to corroborating evidence.



The quote above made to Get Real! brings to mind how I felt reading your elaborate account of Racist Greek Cypriot youths. A personal encounter I supposed, so perhaps you could be allowed leniency on corroboration and links.


I can only apologise that I didn't have a news crew, or at the very least a journalist, with me to have any corroboration. I apologise, too, that I didn't witness any racist attacks in the almost equal amount of time I spent in the North. I did witness violence (against women and against transvestites/transsexuals) in Istanbul, which I did also write about, but, not being in Cyprus, I didn't mention it here.

But flicking through as much as possible of your voluminous trough, I could find no other similar experiences to balance the one-sidedness I immediately felt. That would be fine as you cannot force experiences.

But I was left wondering why you included it?


Basically, I included it because I was appalled by it; I already pitied the foreign workers for the way they get treated generally, then saw a gang of kids intimidating and later attacking them. Also, I included it because it was part of the situation in Cyprus, both the racist kids attacking the immigrants and the anarchist kid defending them. If you insist on me having a bias, it is not about Greeks or Turks, but about nationalists and non-nationalists. I have a bias against nationalists. I think nationalists do their own nations harm, as well as others'.

If retaining you must, then I would add that, save for unquestioning Turkish youths intent on believing anything accusing GCs of racism, your narrative gives you away.

Put simply your bias emanates here more strongly than anywhere else. Tarnishing all the other (skilled) attempts to come across as an impartial historian.


As I mentioned in the racist youths' attack post, it was an anti-racist Greek Cypriot who helped the immigrant workers; so, I didn't accuse Greek Cypriots of racism, but present an experience that showed that both racism and anti-racism within the Greek Cypriot community.

Your narrative accuses me of accusing Greek Cypriots of racism, but my narrative only accuses violent nationalists of harming those they claim to protect. What bias do you have that you seem to want me to be biased towards one side or the other, when I'm not?
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Postby samarkeolog » Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:52 pm

Oracle wrote:Halil's approval seals my suspicions and everything I said.

Turkish propaganda through and through. :lol:


Well, thank you. If I ever have difficulty working in Turkey, or gaining entry into Turkey, as some colleagues have, I can quote you!
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Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:41 am

sam, i like you. (lol)

welcome to the forum.
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Re: the illicit antiquities trade through Cyprus

Postby samarkeolog » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:31 am

I forgot to thank you.

Oracle wrote:Put simply your bias emanates here more strongly than anywhere else. Tarnishing all the other (skilled) attempts to come across as an impartial historian.


I'm touched that you think I'm skilled in something!
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Postby samarkeolog » Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:47 am

Hey Halil,

I was searching the forum to remind myself which section I was supposed to put posts in, then read the illicit antiquities trade thread again, then realised I never answered you.

I'm afraid I don't really know much about Ottoman history. Certainly, the stuff about population transfer sounds possible. I think I remember one friend saying that there wasn't much evidence of people arriving, so maybe the Sultanate made a decision, but it wasn't enacted, or maybe fewer people arrived than expected. (Maybe the sultan changed his mind, maybe the order was never sent out, maybe enough baksis was offered and the order was never delivered, whatever...)

I don't know, but I don't think the Turkmen/Muslim/Turkish Cypriot community was nomadic on Cyprus; the labourers probably moved around, but possibly not nomadically. (Shepherds might have lived and worked in the hills for half the year and on the plains for half a year. Labourers might have worked on different farms or estates. Falan falan falan...)

Certainly, I think some of the little cultural things, and the words in the language, can show some of the history of the community. That's why "British tea" is still now strong, sugary and milky - because, ages ago, British labourers drank it like that to give them the energy to work. (My Turkish is awful, but I find Turkish Cypriots (and Kurds) understand my Turkish better than Turks. I think that's because Turkish Cypriot (and Kurdish) grammar is closer to English, or more flexible than Turkish.)

Cheers
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Postby samarkeolog » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:08 am

Ahmet Djavit An has done quite a bit on the history of the Turkish Cypriot community, I think; that link's to a four-page article he wrote.
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