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Return to 1960 Constitution

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Please read the quote from Turkcyp and Vote

I am a TC -I agree
2
25%
I am a TC -I dont agree
1
13%
I am a GC -I agree
1
13%
I am a GC -I dont agree
3
38%
I am a foreigner -I agree
0
No votes
I am a foreigner -I dont agree
1
13%
 
Total votes : 8

Postby Piratis » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:27 pm

This poll is a bit confusing. The title of the thread is "Return to 1960 Constitution" and the poll is about what Turkcyp said.

I agree with the return to 1960 Constitution, but not with everything that Turkcyp said. So I didn't vote.
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Postby turkcyp » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:31 pm

Piratis wrote:This poll is a bit confusing. The title of the thread is "Return to 1960 Constitution" and the poll is about what Turkcyp said.

I agree with the return to 1960 Constitution, but not with everything that Turkcyp said. So I didn't vote.


Piratis,

I assume what I said about property makes you uneasy of accepting this proposal. How do you reckon we solve property issue then? Tell us your opinion.

If not only property, what else upsets you in this proposal. Just wanted to know where we differ, that’s all.
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Postby Piratis » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:53 pm

I assume what I said about property makes you uneasy of accepting this proposal.


No its not this. I didn't vote because you said many things and I don't agree with everything.

For example i disagree with this:

But until that day that
you convince us that "you are not again cheat us from
our rights, they are here to save our asses, and it is
called "peace operation" for us".


The invasion and occupation can not be called "peace operation". A peace operation would be the one that restored order in Cyprus, not one that committed ethnic cleansing.

About the properties issue, what I care about are two things:
1) Nobody to come out winner or looser out of this.
2) Not to create a different kind of de facto partition where communities own separate parts of the island and population is not mixed.

After this, of course I don't expect everybody to get the exact same property that he had in 1960.
If for a example a TC built his home in a GC land in a village, then the GC should get another property of the same value in the same village. Some deviations from this can exist, but they should not be one that will create the points 1 and 2 above.
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Postby boulio » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:55 pm

well since things wont be exactly going back to the 1960 agreement(property)then i think the t/c will have to sacrfice turkeys and greece and great britans treaty of guranterorship and intervention to be replaced witha a EU GURANTERORSHIP.the british bases will also be gone from the "1960 agreement"
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Postby Kifeas » Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:12 pm

turkcyp wrote:Kifeas this post of yours is again very sorry my language but really ridiculous. It sounds like GCs saying they did not vote for A.Plan because they think Turkey was not going to abide by it. I can listen every complaint of GCs about A. Plan but this does not make sense to me. You are basically accusing Turkey for something they have not done yet, and trying to punish Turkey for your expectations. It is totally ridiculous.


Turkcyp,
If my posting is ridiculous one time then I wonder how many more times is yours.

Read again what you say, especially the underlined parts.

turkcyp wrote:Trust me if by some magic way RoC can make us believe that 1960 constitutional order will be upheld, then TCs will ask Turkish Army to leave. But until that day that you convince us that “you are not again cheat us from our rights, they are here to save our asses, and it is called "peace operation" for us”.

So the way I see it is RoC government duty to make us believe that we are going to be fairly treated according to laws of 1960 constitution. For example, if RoC can come up with a proposal as follows (or something in similar lines): - The next election will be hold according to 1960 agreements, and all the eligible TCs will use their 1960 constitutional rights. - And immediately with the election Turkish troops will start to withdraw to be completed in lets say 2 years.
- And any halfway fair proposal to solve the property problem to go with above points.

My opinion is that majority of TCs would have vote “Yes” to that kind of solution. As I have said it before in the context of “bbf” it is not that “bizonal” but it is the “bicommunal” part that is important for us.

And I ask you. Is it as simple as that? I.e. Should the RoC say to the TCs “come and participate in the elections and take your constructional rights back?” And if majority say, “yes” to this kind of solution… Say yes to what? To a referendum? Who will organise this referendum? The RoC? Where? In the free areas? Will “TRNC” organise this referendum?

Are you sure the TC leadership will let such a referendum to take place, if it is to be made by "TRNC" in the north? Will, only the TC community participate in it, or also the settlers will participate too? What happens to them? If RoC organises such a referendum in the free areas, will the entire TC community be willing or permitted to participate, or just a few thousands? Will Turkey accept such an outcome and also the rest of the TC community, that will choose not come into the free areas to participate in the referendum? And then if the majority says “yes” will that mean that Turkey accepts this solution and withdraws from Cyprus and ends the occupation?

I mean you put something down that doesn’t really hold too much water, to say the least.
I ask again, is the whole thing up to a declaration by the RoC?

You sound like someone who doesn’t know what the real long-standing position of the TC leadership is? There is no way such a proposal or any RoC declaration will make sense to them. Set aside that in practice it cannot be materialise.

Perhaps what you say would have made more sense if it were done under the auspices, initiative and the authority of the UN nations. In such a case then both communities need first to accept to change the platform of the pursed solution from that of BBF to that of a unitary state, based on the 1960 constitution or elsewhere. However, such a thing will never be accepted by the leadership of the TC community, because I know better than you do what the long standing agenda and priorities for them are and especially what are for Turkey.

Send them a letter tomorrow and ask them why they do not propose to the GC side to change the solution platform and start negotiations on the basis of a unitary state and on the basis of the 1960 RoC constitution.

You will be surprised of the answer you will get from them, if you get one.
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