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[Alexandros Lordos]

let me reveal the following thought I often catch myself making: "If the price of re-unification is that Turkey (and others) will have the right to intervene in our affairs, then perhaps partition is better". It is like when someone gets married, and the wife-to-be places a condition that her mother should have a key to the house, so that whenever the couple quarrels the mother will have the right to come into the house and put things in order. Is it not understandable if the husband-to-be thinks: "Emm ... if this is the price for getting married, then I would prefer to stay single"

Would that allow the husband to kick his wifes face in with no one being able to help the poor woman, why woudl she want to get married better off single.

Well, she certainly deserves protection, but from the police rather than from her mother. That's why I believe that in a post-solution Cyprus security should be guaranteed by the international community and by the international legal system (the equivalent of "police") rather than by Turkey and Greece (the two "mothers").

Marriages in which the parents and the in-laws get over-involved in the affairs of the couple, tend to not go so well ...

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos

Well, she certainly deserves protection, but from the police rather than from her mother.

Do you know what the police do in a family fight say its a domestic problem we cant help and leave then the husband continues to beat his wife into a pulp. The womans mother feels for her daughter and does everything to protect her.

[Alexandros Lordos]

Alexandros Lordos

Well, she certainly deserves protection, but from the police rather than from her mother.

Do you know what the police do in a family fight say its a domestic problem we cant help and leave then the husband continues to beat his wife into a pulp. The womans mother feels for her daughter and does everything to protect her.

In a modern country ruled by law, the police can usually offer enough protection. Ofcourse in a third-world country, what you say is true, every man is a law unto himself.

My suggestion is that Cyprus should not be a third-world country any more ...

But anyhow, casting the metaphor aside: I understand how important Turkish guarantees are for the TCs. I respect that. I am also aware that personally I am not happy with such a system, and I would like it if we could agree on something different, something that would make us both feel secure.

[erolz]

In a modern country ruled by law, the police can usually offer enough protection. Ofcourse in a third-world country, what you say is true, every man is a law unto himself.

Even in 'modern' countries like the UK domestic violence (usaly by men agaist women but not allways) remains a very big problem and cases where the police have failed to protect the victim even upto the point where the victim kills the oppressor, whilst rare, do occur.

, and I would like it if we could agree on something different, something that would make us both feel secure.

One thing that makes me less secure is the attitudes of 'nick the greek' and more worryingly a father that could bring a child up with views like those (assuming that he is real of course). How will we deal with people like this so that the need for external protectors does not become an imperative?

[Viewpoint]

Alexandros Lordos

In a modern country ruled by law, the police can usually offer enough protection.

If you consider that the UK is a modern ruled country by law then their police do not intervene in domestic violance. We as TCs need guarantees from an entity that we feel we can trsut and will act in times of danger for our community, the EU is superficial with regards to this issue and could not intervene if things should go wrong.

I am still unable to think positvely towards any issues with regards to reunificiation the more i meet with and chat to GCs the further i move away and feel like we should never trust them and move towards recognised partition.

[MicAtCyp]

Congratulations Turkcyp. I agree to the general spirit of your thoughts. Like I said in the other thread perhaps the solution was always in front of us, but we failed to see the obvious. The only problem I see in the 1960 constitution is the 30% TC government employees, but as I notice you already fixed that in your proposals.

As for Insans comment on Papadopoulos, he himself said the other day if the TCs want to discuss a solution for returning to 1960 constitution that would be a blessing. So we cannot accept him to go back to his own word. If Turkcyp and Alex present us a reliable survey that the whole thing is accepted by the people then if Papadopoulos objects (i don't think he will object anyway) we can throw him out the very next day.

Metecyp what is this mania of yours for bizonality? Bizonality will exist man, do you have any doubts the TCs will be concentrated in the northern part for ever? In almost every area they will be majority.Maybe after 20-30 years they will lose majority in some areas-whats the big deal anyway? The only thing different from BBF is that we will not have borders/specific geographical boundaries, nobody will be deprived to settle anywhere, the general property arrangements of Turkcyp are OK, no problem with voting, no psychological problem that is their state Vs our state why should we pay for their development etc, since all Cyprus will be really the country of all of us again.

Alex "na sas zisi". What was it a boy or a girl?

PS. Viewpoint what happened to you, did you lose your voice? What Turkcyp proposes means no partition-actual or disguised- he,he,he.

[Piratis]

The TCs have got used already to the idea of BBF.

Personally I am almost sure about 2 things:

1) Turkcyp's suggestion could be accepted by the majority of TCs.

2) Turkcyp's suggestion will not be accepted by the majority. This is because switching from BBF to unitary will need a certain degree of promotion and support from some TC parties, but this will never happen because Turkey will not accept it. Turkey is served best with partition + the minimum moves possible to fit her "I am the good one" policies. There is no reason why Turkey today would accept such thing even to be discussed when there is no pressure on her to go that far.

[Kifeas]

he TCs have got used already to the idea of BBF.

Personally I am almost sure about 2 things:

1) Turkcyp's suggestion could be accepted by the majority of TCs.

2) Turkcyp's suggestion will not be accepted by the majority. This is because switching from BBF to unitary will need a certain degree of promotion and support from some TC parties, but this will never happen because Turkey will not accept it. Turkey is served best with partition + the minimum moves possible to fit her "I am the good one" policies. There is no reason why Turkey today would accept such thing even to be discussed when there is no pressure on her to go that far.

Piratis,
I think you made a mistake on item one (1.)
Probably you wanted to say that Turkcyp's suggestion could be accepted by the majority of GCs, instead of TCs that you wrote.

[Kifeas]

2) Turkcyp's suggestion will not be accepted by the majority. This is because switching from BBF to unitary will need a certain degree of promotion and support from some TC parties, but this will never happen because Turkey will not accept it. Turkey is served best with partition + the minimum moves possible to fit her "I am the good one" policies. There is no reason why Turkey today would accept such thing even to be discussed when there is no pressure on her to go that far.

Piratis,

I agree with your assessment. In fact I mentioned the same thing to Turkcyp, in a previous posting, before he expanded into the details of his idea.
As an idea it sounds good and logical, although I am not sure if I understood exactly how he wanted to deal with the issue of settlers.

Unfortunately, this type of solution, having followed the TC /Turkish politics all these years, I find it to be way out of their spectrum to even discuss.

I do not want to get into details as I am sure Turkcyp will discover it himself, ones he attempts to discuss it with some prominent figureheads of his community. I believe the majority of the ordinary TCs wouldn't have any serious problems with it, but I am sure it is beyond discussion by the Army, the Turkish deep state and the majority of the TC leadership.

[insan]

Kifeas and Piratis, insofar as I know you are wrong about your conclusions about turkey, turkish army and "deep state". All turkey and overwhelming majority of TCs need is political equality of TC community, guarantees for their rights/interests and protection against any kind of existing/potential dangers.(Physical, economcial, political, international)


As turkcyp is aware of the existing/potential dangers, threats and disadventegouses of the bi-zonality, TC and turkish political parties and intellectual are also aware of this. However, the idea of bi-zonal, bi-communal federation still is the most feasible model to solve the Cyprus problem in a smooth and calm transition process.

Due to financial, psychological and socio-political difficulties, I don't think the transition period would last less than 20 years, either the solution is based upon federation or a unitary state.

The things that TCs and Turkey will never give up are political equality of TC community and treaty of alliance and treaty of guarantee. In this rapidly globalizing, greedy capitalist world; I don't think two communities of Cyprus will ever fused into one nation; having common interests and living in fairly good harmony. Both TCs and Turkey still see and feel the hostile/intentional approaches and attitudes of some strong and influential European(EPP), Hellenic, Armenian, Kurdish and some other political/religious groups.

Untill the globalization process is completed, both TCs and Turkey will always take into consideration the worst case scenarios, when stepping forward.