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CYPRIOT APOLOGIES TO ONE ANOTHER

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby erolz » Sun May 08, 2005 10:33 pm

magikthrill wrote:
erolz wrote:
The TC did block ratification of the budget at protest to the non implementation of the provisions in the agrement re seperate municipalites.


what was the re separate municipalities issue exactly.


In the 1960 agreements there was provision for the setting up of speerate community muncipal 'agencies' in certain urban areas - like the runnning of garbage collection and the like. Despite these being in the agreemtns the GC resisited implementing them on the basis that they were unpratical though no doubt also linked to fears that they represented some form of 'partition' as well. The TC resented this refusal to implement and the disagreement broke out of the municpalites issue with the TC refusing to ratify the annual budget unless they were implmented. This is all from my somewhat shaky memory and without checking my sources. I am also pretty sure that I read somewhere that it was Makarios that inisted on the inclusion of the seperate municapl agencies in the negotiations that led to the 1960 agreements and it was not the TC side that wanted them at that time, but I am not sure of the accuracy of this claim or not.
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Postby gabaston » Sun May 08, 2005 10:37 pm

Kifeas let me here and now express something to you.

I have an eighteen year old daughter. She has been going out with a greek boy for over a year. His name is Jimmy, he is welcome in my home any and every minute of the day. I would give my blessing to their marriage in the knowledge that they love one another, above and beyond that of any turkish boy coming for broxenya (hope u understood that one).

My business partner and best freind for the last ten years is greek, I love him like a brother.

But in Cyprus there is just too much hate for me to allow myself or my children to return to my land where i in theory can make a load of cash and live like a king in Laranaca.

I hope thats helped you understand my position.

What you probably dont understand is that you've read or been told about the sixties, but i experienced it. If my mothers village were not Kophinou maybe i might not feel this way, But that manyak Grivas poured two thousand greek soldiers or national guard into unarmed Kophinou armed with mortors, armoured vehicles, handgrenades, machine guns, blasted the place to bits, killed 22, and then poured petrol evrywhere.................

sorry, you've been told one thing, i actually know what the sixties were, and im not gambling my kids or my life on even the remotest, slightest, one in a million chance of that ever happening again.

And you talk of Akritas2

gromi re
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Postby gabaston » Sun May 08, 2005 10:45 pm

Pirates

We all know what that was about.


You did say that this is war not peace? what do you expect if you cross the ceasefire line during war, without authority and provoke the enemy……………. a trip to Bermuda?
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Postby magikthrill » Sun May 08, 2005 10:59 pm

gabaston wrote:Pirates

We all know what that was about.


You did say that this is war not peace? what do you expect if you cross the ceasefire line during war, without authority and provoke the enemy……………. a trip to Bermuda?


!!!!!
so you are saying that this beating to death was justified? for real now?
maybe you justify the brutal civilian killings of GCs on TCs then as well??

lets be serious here. that was a horrible and barbarian act.
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Postby gabaston » Sun May 08, 2005 11:23 pm

Yes that was a horrible act, but what war isnt?

Have you any pictures of a nice humane war?
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Postby magikthrill » Sun May 08, 2005 11:33 pm

so are you saying that because it was war the acts (although horrible) are justified?
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Postby gabaston » Mon May 09, 2005 12:13 am

Magic

I do not make the rules of wars. for further guidance see Geneva convention..if Turkey broke her vows then please take her to wherever thay take violators of that convention. They have courts there to deal with these things

As i understand it and as reported by the BBC

This bloke apparently crossed the line, from a country which Turkey was at war with. He tried to climb a flag pole to get the Turkish flag. He wasnt the only one - they could have shot the lot - they were warned to go back - they refused - and he tried it on.

I neither condemn nor condone these actions, and this wasnt some bloke returning to his house either. This was some one who was inciting further conflict - or escalating war-

Greek Cypriot border guards often play this game at night, (stealing the turkish flag) and when caught they face six months in prison by the greek military, it is an extremely serious offence which could plunge the island into further bloodshed and war.

dont ask if i condone or support this, the actions of one person during war is not the responsiblity of you or us. The First world war was started by one or two shots from a gun into The Archduke Ferdinand and twenty million ended up dead. Ask me if i would have condoned the murder of his assaninators prior to that event.

Have u found that humane war picture yet?
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Postby gabaston » Mon May 09, 2005 12:19 am

garbitsch


thanks for pointing out the spelling mistake

:oops:
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Postby Piratis » Mon May 09, 2005 1:55 am

You did say that this is war not peace?


Yes. But you said it is peace, right?
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Postby Kifeas » Mon May 09, 2005 10:31 am

gabaston wrote:Kifeas let me here and now express something to you.

I have an eighteen year old daughter. She has been going out with a greek boy for over a year. His name is Jimmy, he is welcome in my home any and every minute of the day. I would give my blessing to their marriage in the knowledge that they love one another, above and beyond that of any turkish boy coming for broxenya (hope u understood that one).

My business partner and best freind for the last ten years is greek, I love him like a brother.

But in Cyprus there is just too much hate for me to allow myself or my children to return to my land where i in theory can make a load of cash and live like a king in Laranaca.

I hope thats helped you understand my position.

What you probably dont understand is that you've read or been told about the sixties, but i experienced it. If my mothers village were not Kophinou maybe i might not feel this way, But that manyak Grivas poured two thousand greek soldiers or national guard into unarmed Kophinou armed with mortors, armoured vehicles, handgrenades, machine guns, blasted the place to bits, killed 22, and then poured petrol evrywhere.................

sorry, you've been told one thing, i actually know what the sixties were, and im not gambling my kids or my life on even the remotest, slightest, one in a million chance of that ever happening again.

And you talk of Akritas2

gromi re

Dear Mr. Gabaston,
I am well aware of the events in Kofinou village and you are right in the way you described them. On a hill overlooking the main road between Pafos and Limassol, some TCs had set a machinegun firing post and they were occasionally and randomly firing towards passing by cars, especially if they were police or army vehicles, but also towards civilian cars as well. Grivas took a disproportionately larger than necessary force, in order to neutralise the TC firing post (at least this was the excuse given so that the mission was ordered.) However the attack did not end there and unfortunately there were unreasonable and unnecessary killings and mistreatment of TC civilians, in Kofinou and Ayios Theodoros villages.

Anyway, based on what you said, you do not want to see a solution that will bring the two communities in close contact and coexistence, because, although we are now more than 40 years after the inter-communal conflict, although Grivas and his likes are now dead and buried, although the Enosis dream has for a long time now been equally dead and buried, although Cyprus now is an E.U. member, although GCs are now enjoying one of the highest economic prosperities in the Middle East and not only we have no intention loosing it but we also hope that TCs will soon, with a solution, be able to reach that level too, although almost half of GCs below the age of 40 are now university graduates –one of the highest ratios world wide, although south Cyprus receives nearly 3 million tourists a year –making it probably the highest ratio worldwide in comparison to its population, although almost every single GC takes at least one holiday abroad every year, although there are so many other small communities like British, Russians, Asians, etc, living happily and peacefully among them, although for 2 years now so many TCs are crossing daily into south for work and other services, without anyone having so far been heart, although you yourself has business and even family relationships with GCs, although …., and although…, you are still afraid that in the year 2005, some TCs will again set up a machinegun post in some new Kofinou village and that a new Grivas with 2,000 GCs will again attack them and commit similar atrocities like then.

I would like to thank you for the very high regard you have for the GCs. I am sorry but I am not in the business of proving that me or the rest of the GCs are not elephants. If you sincerely feel they way in which you have been expressed, then I see no solution other than permanent partition.

What do you think?
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