Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Magnify by 100 what we did

Attempted genocide can not be magnified, it is the vilest act of mankind.
The only wosre thing is completing it. Whilst the allies are commended for halting the nazi's Jewish genocide, and Nato also for halting the Serb genocide of moslems, the only country in the world prepared to stop your genocide of tc's was Turkey. The Bosnians now have somewhere to live freely, as do the Israelis..............................................but us tc's, oh no.............come back all is forgotten, it was a mistake..................................................................

oh come on.
You call a genocide the killing of some 100s TCs over a period of 10 years? (and while at the same period the TCs killed many GCs)

For every TC we killed you killed 100 GCs and we never accused you for genocide. When we say something it is a fact. E.g. The fact that you preformed ethnic cleansing in northern Cyprus by removing 200.000 GCs from their homes. I hope you can distinguish between a fact and imaginary theories.

The propaganda and lies you say are beyond anything. In any case the world is used to the Turkish lies: There was no invasion (it was a peace operation), there is no occupation in Cyprus (there is "TRNC"), there was no Armenian genocide, human rights are respected in Turkey, the Kurds are not oppressed .. lies lies lies lies.

Instead of living in denial how about to try to get a bit civilized for once? (of course when Turks are used in creating nothing and always grabbing what others created I admit that such attempt will not be an easy one)

[gabaston]

Piratis


I said "attempted" – attempted genocide

Let me quote from two who were more informed than you and me

1) Sampson
If the Turkish Army had delayed its attack another three days, there would not be a single turk on Cyprus today.
2) Makarios
By the time Turkey gets here there will be no tcs left to save.

[Kifeas]

Magnify by 100 what we did

Attempted genocide can not be magnified, it is the vilest act of mankind.
The only wosre thing is completing it. Whilst the allies are commended for halting the nazi's Jewish genocide, and Nato also for halting the Serb genocide of moslems, the only country in the world prepared to stop your genocide of tc's was Turkey. The Bosnians now have somewhere to live freely, as do the Israelis..............................................but us tc's, oh no.............come back all is forgotten, it was a mistake..................................................................

Ok gabaston! You are right we are trying to cheat on you. Do not come back because when you do we will complete the genocide we started against you in the 1960’s.

What solution do you suggest except the one that will not require you to come back?

[gabaston]

Do not come back because when you do we will complete the genocide we started against you in the 1960’s.


So your’e stiil there with your dreams huh?

Keep dreaming!

[Kifeas]

Do not come back because when you do we will complete the genocide we started against you in the 1960’s.


So your’e stiil there with your dreams huh?

Keep dreaming!

I am serious gabaston. I am not dreaming. We have secret plans to exterminate you all, like we tried in the 60's. It is called Akritas plan II. I am just passing the information on to you so that you know before hand.

What solution do you suggest or will accept that will not require you to come back and become exterminated?

[Piratis]

gabaston, if we wanted and we could get rid of all TCs within days then why we didn't do that much much earlier?

What it was in reality was intercomunal fight. We killed some of you and you killed some of us.
The term "genocide" is simply yet another big word you choose to use in order to magnify those 10 years and make them seem as bad as possible hoping to equate those 10 years with the 100 times more and worst crimes you performed against us.

Why you do not admit that while GCs committed crimes against TCs, that the Turks and TCs committed 100 times more crimes against GCs? You doubt that this is a fact?

[cannedmoose]

I am serious gabaston. I am not dreaming. We have secret plans to exterminate you all, like we tried in the 60's. It is called Akritas plan II. I am just passing the information on to you so that you know before hand.

You must be living in an alternate universe re...

[gabaston]

I hope the two quotes I gave gave some way to dispelling any notion that those events are imaginary theories.

Re the Kurds – its not a subject I know of, but here’s two to ponder

I met a Turkish Kurd in London and not knowing anything about the situation I asked him for his comments.
He replied “I never knew there was a war until I read about it in the English press”
My nephews’s girlfriend is Turkish Kurd she says
“ Its all about controlling the illegal drug traffic money of the Kurdish drug runners in the South East of Turkey, because
their money is having adverse affect in the western part of Turkey where they are fighting a battle to install a European style economy”

Of course Piratis if you have any further information on this topic please enlighten us.

Re Armenians ….they too have a land where they are free to live in peace.
I wasn’t there and I don’t know anyone who was, so I wont comment any further. If however you were or have any first hand knowledge of those events then talk, otherwise better to leave the Armenian issue to those who know about it.

As for human rights in Turkey please be aware that The Turkish Replublic is one of some 80 million. It is less tha 85 yrs old. It is coming to terms with western ideals after having been the Ottoman empire and run on Eastern Ideologies for hundreds of years.. It must as democracies must try right and left wing, ultra until it gets to the point of understanding the benefits of democracy.
Just look at the hash that tin-pot democratic Cyprus has made of its first 45 yrs….get the drift.

[erolz]

What you are systematically doing in this forum is blaming the GC side for 80 or 90% of the Cyprus problem. The Turkish side is to be blamed for the ethnic cleansing of GCs as early as 1958, for undermining the RoC, for keeping thousands of TCs away from their homes after 1964 in order to exploit them as a "strategic minority" and for the invasion in 1974 with all its known results. Don't you think that in your case, your apology for that little 10 or 20% u think the Turkish side is responsible is insulting our intelligence?

You misinterpet and or misunderstand me. I am not trying to claim GC are responsible for the greater part of the Cyprus problem as it is today. I am trying to refute your thesis that TC are equaly or more responsible for the mess upto 74.

An apology from me you say? Since I am the same age as you are and since I could have never been involved in anything even if I wanted to, and since I am also a refugee and therefore a victim of Turkey's actions in Cyprus, perhaps someone should be apologizing to me, don't you think?

and I already gave you that appology personaly and as far as I have any right to give it to you. Do you not rember this? Yes you are due and appolgy and you got it (from me personaly at least and some other TC indivduals). So why ask if I think you are deserving of an appolgy. You already know my potition here yet instead you continue to try and make out that I am only being one sided - asking for appolgies from GC but denying such from TC.

As a citizen of this country I can do nothing to change the past, but I am prepared in doing my share or part in any effort to restore past and present injustices on BOTH sides and which imho is a lot more useful / constructive than just "condemning" or "apologizing" which never goes beyond words.

What then is your 'part'. What concrete actions have you participated in personaly that are so much more useful and constructive than just 'words'. You certainly seem 'game' to play word games in the defence of GC (in the period 63-74 especillay) and in condemanation of TC - despite your appartent 'dsilake' for such useless acts?

Are you prepared to do the same?

I do not know what 'actions' you have taken to end the Cyprus problem so I can ot say if I am prepared to do the same or not. I do know what actions I have taken. What efforts I have made at intercommunal co operation outside of politics. What efforts I have made to meet GC in person face to face.

From your absolute and near racist views with respect to a future solution in Cyprus that we discussed not so long ago, I don't think you are, but I will be pleasantly surprised if you can ever prove me wrong on this one.

My near racist views? My absolutist views? I remeber a discussion a while ago and I recall it differently to you. I recall Piratis saying that all Turks know how to do is murder rape and steal. I rember calling this blantanlty racist. I remeber your efforts to deflect such accusations agaist Piratis' blatantly racist remarks by comparing this to my 'racisim' in saying that there has to be some (not total or absolute) ethnic component in a federal Cyprus solution because the problem was and is one of ethnic groups persuing ethnic agendas. If that is near racism then what the bleep is saying that all a given race knows how to do is murder rape and steal?

Now if a personal apology from me will make any difference to anyone including you, then I say why not? I am not sure what good will the personal apology of someone you don't even know do to you, but still. If however you expect or demand an apology from me just because I am a GC, then I find this approache almost racist and thus in accord with other stuff you have posted in this forum with respect to a future solution.

I have already pointed out how much the personal appology of the GC gentleman made to my aunt when he visted her house meant to her. If you can not undesratnd how much this _sincere_ appology meant and how much it help to heal some of the pain and suffering she lives daily at her loss then so be it. I do not demand an appology from you. For me such applogies are concrete acts of goodwill from both sides. Again you start with the attacks and accusations of my racsim. It is racist to offer an appolgy on behalf of my community and expect and hope for the return from yours? How exactly is this racist? The fact is there have been much more direct and indisputably racist comments from GC here, but like so much else that realtes to GC you chose to ignore or minimse or deny these whilst seeking to 'fabricate' a charge of racism against me.

There is no point discussing (with me or anyone else that I have seen) the GC communites culpability and level of culpabilityfor the mess Cyprus is in today? Are you sure the reason for this is that I am admant in my version of the story and not somehting a lot more 'obvious'?

Read what I wrote above. Again, when you and others are as absolute in your views which are nothing less than hardcore Turkish propaganda then I see no reason in discussing any past mistakes of the GC side because this will simply lead us nowhere but blaming every GC that ever existed or that will ever exist for just about everything that went wrong in Cyprus.

I read what you wrote the first time and remain of the opinion that your reluctance to talk about and discuss the culpability of GC in this mess is a result of a reluctance on your part to discuss the culpability of GC in this mess. Your protestations that this is not the cause but that your reluctance is my fault does not convince me I am afraid.

I remember pointing out myself the fact that many GCs were not happy with the 1960 agreements, but this does not mean that the GC side did nothing at all to implement them.

How 'unbiased' of you to accept that many GC were not happy with the 1960 agreements! Care to site what they did to implement them rather than undermine them then?

I am also aware that parts of speeches delivered by Makarios in front of C audiences were notparticularly welcomed by the TCs, but then again there were similar speeches delivered on the other side which raised similar GC concerns.

The point is not that they were not welcome by TC. The point is that they are clear and compelling evidence of Makarios determination to change that which he and the GC community did not like - thus a desire and plan to undermine the 1960 consitution.

Other than that I am also aware of a number of Turkish actions that went beyond words in order to hurt the other side.

So you only talke about undermining the consitution you signed but we did not talk so openly about it but did things to undermine it?

Who was importing weapons for the TMT, AFTER the London Zurich agreements were signed?

And GC were not importing weapons and personel legally and illegaly in this period?

Who maintained aeparatist enclaves throughout Cyprus AFTER the agreements and after Independnce was declared?

Who prepared safe(r) areas for the TC community in advance of widespread violence from GC and in face of the growing evidence of GC plans to force illegaly changes to the consituion on TC community against their will and with force if necessary?

Who restricted GC refugees from returning to their homes AFTER the agreements were signed?

After the agreements were singed and they had been driven from their homes primarily as a result of premeidtated planned GC attacks against them?

Who was responsible for a series of brutal murders that were carried out BEFORE 1963 against progressive, moderate TCs who advocated cooperation with the GCs?

I am aware of the murders of two journalists by TC extermists who fit such a category. Of course GC extremists comitted no murders against GC that davocated cooperation with TC?

For the reasons that I have already outlined above as well as many other, these were a lot more than just "alternative scenarios". Most of what you write above comes accross as another attempt to "justify" the gradual ethnic cleansing and partitioning of Cyprus by Turkey.

I do not seek to justify the partion of the isalnd by Turkey in 74 and the pain and suffering that caused to TC. I seek to challenge you version of events prior to this - for I believe that an accurate understanding of what really happened and why is essential if we are to achieve a united cyprus and avoid these past disasters.

I never denied that in the last 42+ years there were / are TC as well as GC victims in Cyprus.

No you have not because unlike yor your president you realise that such would be a denial too far. It seems tome you prefer murkier (greyer) waters to wash your denials in.

But again erolz, the question is IF one is prepared to work and try to correct past and present injustices. Are you prepared to do so?

And once again I ask what you have actually done or do to try and correct the past, other than post in this forum? I can answer this question but am left wondring if you can?

Considering that only one week ago you were trying to "justify" all the ongoing construction on stolen GC properties, I don't think so.

Care to actually show any evidence to support this allegation? I notice the murkiness already creeping in with the use of "justify" rather than plain old justify. Well depending on what "justify" means in your intertpretation I guess anything could be used to support this allegation.

All I did was to reverse your own words.

and ignore the question.

Other than that you insist on building all your arguments on the erroneous "fact" that by 1963 the Turkish side had little to be blamed for. While I understand the convenience behind this approach, this is not what really happened.

I have never said that TC had little to be blamed for by 63. What I have said and continue to say and believe is supported by the bulk of evidence availble is that TC community had less to blame for the sate of cyprus in the period 63-74 than GC community. Somthing that is clearly not to your liking

And on whose accounts will this "someone" write this new, balanced account?

You may believe there is no truth, that there is only subjective reality. I do not. I have absoultely no doubt that a better more objective version of what truly happend and why than the propaganda based version of either side could be written. I would welcome such efforts and ahave reapeated said so and called for such efforts. Would you welcome them or do you like the muddiness in the water that allows plausible denial?

Fair enough, but why does one have to rely on the content of one web site? The only reason I say this is because some people in here have come to treat the Cy-conflict.net site as the Cyprus Problem "bible" online (this is my impression anyway).

The web site is rightly regarded as one of the most blanced and unbiased accounts of recent Cypriot history because it is one of, if not the most, unbiased and balanced site. If you know of others that match this then please let us all know where they are. I am sure we will welcome them. I a battle of propganda and counter propganda this site stands above the crowd in its attempt at balnce and objectivity and not just in my opinion.

[gabaston]

The reason you never done it 60-74 was that Makarios fully was aware that to openly do so would have been met by Turkish military.
And the reason why Sampson failed was the Turkish military ………