Cyprus-Forum.com

[Othellos]

Othellos

58 was before my time, I think what you are referring to are the turkish police who replaced greek police by the british, to combat eoka…………

But the constitution was founded in 60, all past aggressions should then have been dead and buried. They weren’t instead they became the cornerstone of Cypriot internal policy.


So does this now mean that any new agreement gc enters into will allow past grievances guide their actions?

Hello gabaston

When I mentioned 1958 I was referring to the forced eviction of GCs from their homes by the TMT in places like Omorphita, Lefka and elsewhere. These people were never allowed to return home even after 1960.

You are absolutely right that in 1960 "all past aggressions should then have been dead and buried". But those who were to govern the newly founded Republic were apparently not the best people to achieve this.

1963 did not arrive suddenly and out of the blue....everyGCand TC paramilitary groups were arming and training themselves. As I have written before, one of Makarios' and Dr. Kucuk's big mistakes was their failure to address what was going on while discussing it openly and honestly. But they didn't and many innocent Cypriots from both sides paid (and to this day continue to pay) for this.

No, if the solution will lead to the eventual re-unification of Cyprus then past grievances have no place and this is why we should ALL make every possible and sincere effort to eliminate them. This is exactly why I wrote that we all need to try and correct the injustices that were carried out in the past against any Cypriot regardless of his / her ethnic background.

Regards

O.

[erolz]

Regarding the 60s it is more than obvious that we (the GCs) lost the ordinary and moderate TCs that could help evolve the state into something functional.How could we earn their trust anyway when all the power was in the hands of our extremists? The equal citizens rights that we advocate today could NOT even apply for the TCs back then. Because those who were always behind overthrowing the state, would not allow it. So the game continued in favor of the TC partitionists who in addition won the ordinary TC masses. What else could those masses do other than seek protection near their own people, whatever the agenta of those might be?
The same happens until today.

Now that to me is a 'realistic' apprasial of the period and I thank you for it MicAtCyp. Othellos do you also consider it a fair and realistic aprasial of this period? If you do then I am happy to 'close' the discussion on this period and move on to more recent more concrete ways we can all move forward.

The problem TODAY is that there is absolutely no way to earn the trust of the TC masses unless we also satisfy the demands of those ruling them as well as their agenta. It's a dead end and I don't know how we can overcome it. I am not even sure in case a miracle happens and the tables turn in our favor that we the GCs and our leaders will have the maturity to earn the trust of the TC masses.

I believe there is a way of breaking out of this deadlock - but certainly no easy way. I have stated before thatbi communality is a red line for me. This is not absolutely true. There ARE certain circumstances under which I would supprt and argue for a unitary Cyprus and very quickly if not immediately. What would be required for me to tkae this position is some kind of 'vision' for a true Cypriot nation and Cypriot idendtity that is 'bigger' than the Cyprus problem and anything being talked about today. If the 'biggest' goal, the biggest 'vision' we can come up with for Cyprus is some sort of semi 'EU normailty' following in the wings of a ideolgicaly banckrupt EU vision of econmic growth as the begging and end of all human aspirtation and potential achievment, then no I am sorry but that is not a big enough vision for me to risk all for. However if there was somehwere a Cypriot (GC or TC) with a vision of building a Cyprus that is BETTER than europe, that is more ambitious more progressive and more willing to put anything other than constant unrestrained econmic growth as the 'national objective' then I might start to be able to muster the belief and ethusisam for a futre that does not hark back constantly to the past. A vision of a Cyprus where 'gross national happiniess' is a more important target than 'gross national product'. Sadly I see no such signs of such visionary leadership in Cyprus on either side.

[gabaston]

Thanks for the invitation and warning, both are much appreciated.

Here’s some advise for you:

These forums are monitored by Govts and all interested parties to help gauge public opinion. So keep writing your threats for the world to read.

[erolz]

Thanks for the invitation and warning, both are much appreciated.

Here’s some advise for you:

These forums are monitored by Govts and all interested parties to help gauge public opinion. So keep writing your threats for the world to read.

Who are these comments addressed to gabaston? Was trying to work it out but am still a bit confused ?

[gabaston]

Erolz

this was addressed to guy with the Akritas2 plan..

[Kifeas]

Dear Mr. Gabaston,
You posted the following. (the red markings are mine.)

Magnify by 100 what we did

Attempted genocide can not be magnified, it is the vilest act of mankind.
The only wosre thing is completing it. Whilst the allies are commended for halting the nazi's Jewish genocide, and Nato also for halting the Serb genocide of moslems, the only country in the world prepared to stop your genocide of tc's was Turkey. The Bosnians now have somewhere to live freely, as do the Israelis..............................................but us tc's, oh no.............come back all is forgotten, it was a mistake..................................................................

I quoted it and said the following.

Ok gabaston! You are right we are trying to cheat on you. Do not come back because when you do we will complete the genocide we started against you in the 1960’s.

What solution do you suggest except the one that will not require you to come back?

Then you replied to me with the following.

So your’e stiil there with your dreams huh?

Keep dreaming!

I replied again with the following

I am serious gabaston. I am not dreaming. We have secret plans to exterminate you all, like we tried in the 60's. It is called Akritas plan II. I am just passing the information on to you so that you know before hand.

What solution do you suggest or will accept that will not require you to come back and become exterminated?

Finally you replied with the following.

Thanks for the invitation and warning, both are much appreciated.

Here’s some advise for you:

These forums are monitored by Govts and all interested parties to help gauge public opinion. So keep writing your threats for the world to read.

If you read both of my above replies more carefully, I made a specific question, which you did not answer to me, but instead you have chosen to give me an advise that I did not ask.

My question was, based on your expressed allegations and doubts about GCs, which I reconfirmed, “What solution do you suggest or will accept that will not require you to come back and risk to become exterminated by the GCs?”

I am sincerely interested in hearing your answer to my question.

[gabaston]

Hello Othellos

I know nothing of the pre sixties, other than eoka started at around the end of World War two as did a few other colonial independence organizations, Cyprus was under British rule/administration and if you say this happened then im in no position to not believe you.

All I will say is that this may have in done in order to combat the eoka threat. I might also add that tc’s could have taken up arms against gc’s before gc’s acted against the tc’s. I can understand that they would have tried to nip enosis in the bud then, before it got out of control. I can also see the possibility of tc and British collaboration in dealing with eoka. It is also possible that tc’s were preparing their defenses in expectation of what was to come.

Whatever their interests it was probably to counter the Eoka movement, whose interests were in direct conflict with their own security.

Other than this then they were a bunch of bandits who should have been taken to the local prison and locked up for twenty years.

[magikthrill]

How and why did the intercommunal violence break out in 1963?

I know Makarios "suggested" changes but what was the reason? Had the TCs done anything or was Makarios just trying to gain more power of the TCs?

I read some stuff on the RoC website (about how a plan was found from TC ministers that had planned the partition of the country) but IM hesitant to believe it. If their information is anything like the TRNC's website then it is being exaggeration but pure bollocks! (i love that word)

[gabaston]

What solution do you suggest except the one that will not require you to come back


Kifeas this is what you asked?

I did not answer because i did not fully understand the question

Kifeas

I propose no solution. I am no politician and I don’t propose to say what is fair for your people.
I have suggested that in return for my land in Nc your people can have my land in Sc.
Between us we have been unable to agree an acceptable or workable solution for over fifty years.
I don’t think Eu will solve anything, and to be honest I think that Turkish entry will strengthen the gc cause more than the tc cause.

In the end the solution may be forced on us by greed i.e economics.
The north, inch for inch is potentially the biggest economic boom of the next fifty yrs. Low property prices, low wages, access to Africa, Europe, The Middle East. How much longer do you think nations will deny their investors access to this potential boom market. Who will be the last?

Sooner or later de-facto recognition will come, it could be tomorrow, it could take just one more drop of water for the glass to overflow. I suggest that you get Papadop to the negotiating table as soon as you can and grab what you can, while you can. Other than that I have no solution other than you have what I left and I have what you left, and maybe somewhere down the generations with trust having been restored., and based on an economic or social platform our two peoples can once again try and become one.

[Kifeas]

What solution do you suggest except the one that will not require you to come back


Kifeas this is what you asked?

I did not answer because i did not fully understand the question

Kifeas

I propose no solution. I am no politician and I don’t propose to say what is fair for your people.
I have suggested that in return for my land in Nc your people can have my land in Sc.
Between us we have been unable to agree an acceptable or workable solution for over fifty years.
I don’t think Eu will solve anything, and to be honest I think that Turkish entry will strengthen the gc cause more than the tc cause.

Based on your comments above and more specifically the items I underlined, I assume that you might as well accept or suggest that the situation remains as it is or even better to have formal partition (de jure) with global exchange of properties between north and south.

Am I correct?