Lack of Common Ground
 | Lack of Common Ground |  |
 Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:13 am |
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| Expatkiwi |
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| Joined: 17 Jun 2005 |
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| Location: California, USA |
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From what the international news media is reporting, both leaders (Christofas and Talat) are trying to bridge the gap between the two sides, and the media mood seems to be optimistic, but judging from this forum, both leaders might as well not bother. Common ground is just not in existance here, and that means on this issue you choose your side.
That's not to say that I would oppose any settlement that would result in reunification of the communities into a viable state. Should Christofas and Talat pull off a deal (and assuming that the Guarantor powers allow it to happen), I would be the first to cheer. But since I am a cynic in regards to Cyprus, I'm not holding my breath. The basic fact is that the historic emnity between Greek and Turk is not going to go away, and that means IMHO that partition is the only realistic answer. Until common ground on key issues are met - and that involves compromises from BOTH sides - the situation is not going to change, and that means my position on this issue will not change. |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:31 am |
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| Big Al |
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| Joined: 23 Feb 2008 |
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Agreed, in times where we are seeing new nations emerging often due to the fact that two different communities cannot live together we have some people are living in pixie land here's a few expamples of nations gaining independence over the last 20 years....unification is doomed and the sooner TC's realise this the better, there is an ulterior motive behind GC's wanting unification and they are salivating at the thought of taking TC's under their control withoout Turkey's soldiers on Cyprus.
Armenia
Azerbaijan
Belarus
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Croatia
Czech Republic
East Timor
Eritrea
Estonia
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Kosovo
Kyrgyzstan
Latvia
Lithuania
Moldova
Montenegro
Namibia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uzbekistan |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:39 am |
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| umit07 |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 28 Oct 2007 |
| Posts: 1210 |
| Location: Melbourne |
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| Well EK , if it were up to Erdogan and his lot they would say "Yes" to any plan with some cosmetic changes , just so not to loose face. When it comes to Talat , he understands that his days are numbered and that neither him or his party will ever get a chance like this again. Christofias on the other hand has not dodged much on their demands. Nothing is gonna change in my opinion , as long as the GC side accept that we are gonna rule over this island as partners. |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:49 am |
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| iceman |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 09 Mar 2007 |
| Posts: 1586 |
| Location: Originally from Limassol now living in Kyrenia |
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What i want is for the Turkish Cypriots (and i mean pre 74 TC's)to be given a chance to decide on their future.
Judging by the look of things today,this will never happen and both sides of the stick is shitty for the TC's.
Given the chance i am sure TC's will prefer to have a decent share in a unified Cyprus (BBF) rather than being extinct in a mainland Turkish administered TRNC.
Today,TC's are a minority in the north and their numbers are droping at an alarming rate.
At no stage in their history the TC's were subject to such an extinction..not even in the days of EOKA & Enosis..(at least we had a chance to fight against extinction in those days)
I ask you partition supporters...WHAT COMMON GROUND DO YOU HAVE WITH THE TURKISH/KURDISH/ARAB SETTLERS FROM TURKEY?
maybe you should come and spend some time in your country and experience the situation at first hand before supporting your partition ideas. |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:58 am |
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| umit07 |
| lecturer |
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| Joined: 28 Oct 2007 |
| Posts: 1210 |
| Location: Melbourne |
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| We still have the chance for that iceman but in 10 more years time I doubt it. As you said both ends of the stick are shitty and I agree with you on this. The only way for us to reverse the settling is to be able to economicaly sustain ourselves , without the need for cash from Turkey. This is the only way out! |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:58 am |
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| zan |
| vip |
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| iceman wrote: |
What i want is for the Turkish Cypriots (and i mean pre 74 TC's)to be given a chance to decide on their future.
Judging by the look of things today,this will never happen and both sides of the stick is shitty for the TC's.
Given the chance i am sure TC's will prefer to have a decent share in a unified Cyprus (BBF) rather than being extinct in a mainland Turkish administered TRNC.
Today,TC's are a minority in the north and their numbers are droping at an alarming rate.
At no stage in their history the TC's were subject to such an extinction..not even in the days of EOKA & Enosis..(at least we had a chance to fight against extinction in those days)
I ask you partition supporters...WHAT COMMON GROUND DO YOU HAVE WITH THE TURKISH/KURDISH/ARAB SETTLERS FROM TURKEY?
maybe you should come and spend some time in your country and experience the situation at first hand before supporting your partition ideas. |
Selam iceman
I am just wondering......What do you think would have been the fate of the TCs if Turkey had not come......For arguments sake, lets take out any massacres that might of happened and look at it from a purely political perspective.
p.s.
My sisters live here now, as you suggest and do not think the way you do so just living here is not the answer.
I will have to look at your reply tonight as we are off out now. Please don't take offense at my questions....I really am interested even though you spat the word "Partitionist in my face it seems. Can you PM me the link so I don't lose it? I feel this might turn into a hot thread   |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:01 am |
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| Big Al |
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| Joined: 23 Feb 2008 |
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| iceman wrote: |
What i want is for the Turkish Cypriots (and i mean pre 74 TC's)to be given a chance to decide on their future.
Judging by the look of things today,this will never happen and both sides of the stick is shitty for the TC's.
Given the chance i am sure TC's will prefer to have a decent share in a unified Cyprus (BBF) rather than being extinct in a mainland Turkish administered TRNC.
Today,TC's are a minority in the north and their numbers are droping at an alarming rate.
At no stage in their history the TC's were subject to such an extinction..not even in the days of EOKA & Enosis..(at least we had a chance to fight against extinction in those days)
I ask you partition supporters...WHAT COMMON GROUND DO YOU HAVE WITH THE TURKISH/KURDISH/ARAB SETTLERS FROM TURKEY?
maybe you should come and spend some time in your country and experience the situation at first hand before supporting your partition
ideas. |
Iceman, i would rather be overrun by Turks 100 times rather than once by a GC. If they do unify the island how long until the north also becomes predominantly gc, then administered by gc's?? The situation will become something very close to what happened to the palestians when the jews started to buy up their land. So in a way you're right either way the TC's are fucked but atleast their rights are protected as a minority to the republic of Turkey. |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:07 am |
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| halil |
| professor |
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| Joined: 09 Mar 2007 |
| Posts: 3949 |
| Location: nicosia |
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| iceman wrote: |
What i want is for the Turkish Cypriots (and i mean pre 74 TC's)to be given a chance to decide on their future.
Judging by the look of things today,this will never happen and both sides of the stick is shitty for the TC's.
Given the chance i am sure TC's will prefer to have a decent share in a unified Cyprus (BBF) rather than being extinct in a mainland Turkish administered TRNC.
Today,TC's are a minority in the north and their numbers are droping at an alarming rate.
At no stage in their history the TC's were subject to such an extinction..not even in the days of EOKA & Enosis..(at least we had a chance to fight against extinction in those days)
I ask you partition supporters...WHAT COMMON GROUND DO YOU HAVE WITH THE TURKISH/KURDISH/ARAB SETTLERS FROM TURKEY?
maybe you should come and spend some time in your country and experience the situation at first hand before supporting your partition ideas. |
well done İceman . Good spot .
also all foreigners must not vote in south as well . (Like Pontus or Pontions) Before 74 Cypriots must decide .
If there is a agreement . Do you want to return Limassol ?
If you are returning back or not Why ? |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:22 am |
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| halil |
| professor |
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| Joined: 09 Mar 2007 |
| Posts: 3949 |
| Location: nicosia |
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| zan wrote: |
| iceman wrote: |
What i want is for the Turkish Cypriots (and i mean pre 74 TC's)to be given a chance to decide on their future.
Judging by the look of things today,this will never happen and both sides of the stick is shitty for the TC's.
Given the chance i am sure TC's will prefer to have a decent share in a unified Cyprus (BBF) rather than being extinct in a mainland Turkish administered TRNC.
Today,TC's are a minority in the north and their numbers are droping at an alarming rate.
At no stage in their history the TC's were subject to such an extinction..not even in the days of EOKA & Enosis..(at least we had a chance to fight against extinction in those days)
I ask you partition supporters...WHAT COMMON GROUND DO YOU HAVE WITH THE TURKISH/KURDISH/ARAB SETTLERS FROM TURKEY?
maybe you should come and spend some time in your country and experience the situation at first hand before supporting your partition ideas. |
Selam iceman
I am just wondering......What do you think would have been the fate of the TCs if Turkey had not come......For arguments sake, lets take out any massacres that might of happened and look at it from a purely political perspective.
Zan ,
All the TC's knows what will happened to them If Turkey didn't come to Cyprus is different than those workers to come and settle down here and effect my free will .more than 98% of the TC's wants Turkey's guarantees over Cyprus. TC's are supporting BBF solution as expressed many times by our leadership .our red lines are well knowing as well .
p.s.
My sisters live here now, as you suggest and do not think the way you do so just living here is not the answer.
I will have to look at your reply tonight as we are off out now. Please don't take offense at my questions....I really am interested even though you spat the word "Partitionist in my face it seems. Can you PM me the link so I don't lose it? I feel this might turn into a hot thread |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 8:23 am |
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| Bananiot |
| professor |
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| Joined: 11 Jun 2004 |
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| Location: Nicosia |
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I feel for Iceman but I can also understand what you are saying BA. You see, our phobics would also argue that they would much sooner get run over by Greece than the Turks. In fact, we went one further than you, we fought a whole empire just to get run over by Greece.
Taking all these into account, one cannot but marvel at the Annan Plan which quite ingeniously managed these matters. Still, while the present window of opportunity remainsl open, we may yet get our BBF with political equality which should suffice to put all peoples worries to rest, especially within the friendly environment of the European union.
It should be clear to everyone now that there are two options. One is partition and the other is BBF with political equality. Dwelling over anything else is merely academic and a waste of time really.
The fears expressed in this thread are not unfounded. History backs them up. For this reason I argued in another thread that the property issue is not the most pressing one, as suggested by some. The structures we set up to run the new Cyprus is the most pressing issue. If we can agree on them the rest are a piece of cake. |
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