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IS INTOLERANCE PART OF ALL RELIGIONS

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Postby miltiades » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:25 am

Paphitis wrote:
CopperLine wrote:Paphitis,

So I take it that you have read the Koran and have developed this opinion from studying the topic


Would reading "The origin of leprechauns and the nature of sprites" develop your opinion on the truth of fairies ?


Pathetic analogy really.

It does not matter what I, You, Miltiades or any other person believe. The fact remains that over 1 billion people find solace in Islam, 1 billion find solace in Christianity, 1 billion find solace in Hinduism and so on.. Why should I or anyone else be judgemental and display prejudice to these religious doctrines.

I have not read the Bible or the Koran, and have no intention of doing so. I have developed my own opinions on Christianity about the existence of God, but I refrain from slandering the faith that so many depend on.

Likewise, I know very little about Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. So I am not qualified to slander those religions and I refuse to display any intolerance towards them. Offering your own judgement on religious doctrines that you know nothing about, is not right.

As for Islam, there is one thing I find deplorable. And that is Sharia Law. I find it deplorable how women are treated, how they behead, stone in the name of Allah Akbar! I am also against any form of capital punishment in all circumstances, whether it is in Saudi Arabia or The United States. IMHO

Correction here mate. 1.4 billion Muslims , 2.2 Christians.

I think in your efforts to present an intelligent front on the issue you are talking rubbish.
People make their assumptions on an issue without necesarily studying comprehensively the matter in question.
The Islamic faith consists of two sides. The Middle of the road belivers and the Islamists who are hell bent on destroying the other faits and spreading their brand of Islam the world over. People react to THIS brand of Islam , people react to the July 7th bombings in London , the 7/11 in New York and the numerous other violent acts by the fanatics against innocent people. When Islamic fundamentalists are spreading , not the word of God , but words of hate and words inspiring disciples to commit ghastly crimes against the "non believer" then people react.
This tread was about all religious intolerance but right now the Intolerance to other faiths is shown by Saudi Arabia who will not allow other faiths to exist on its soil , Saudi Arabia is the nation responsible for the continuation of the myth that Islam will one day spread throughout the world. Saudi Arabia is the nation that still has public beheadings and mutilations , all in the name of a non existent God.
I have nothing against any ones faith , provided I have the right to be a non believer without being hated and without the fear of intimidation by the believers .
Believe and let believe , do not threaten me with death and destruction because I do not share your belief.
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Postby connor » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:28 am

Religion, I believe, is in itself not the problem...its how some interpret it and make up various rules which they then stand by and in many cases blow common sense out the window.

If people wish to follow a certain faith..catholic..Islamic..whatever..then go ahead. But why oh why do so many of them include such intolerant rules....ie Catholics say the use of contraceptives is wrong..what idiot made that one up..? Is it Jehovas Witnesses that are against blood transfusions..? To the extent that they are prepared to let a loved one die rather than be thankful for modern medicinal practices..! What moron thought that one up...? Their son/daughter/wife/brother can die because of their religions crappy rule book. The list of mind blowing stupidty goes on and on. Islamics treatment of their women...Unbelievable...!

Our planet..Earth..happens to be just the right distance from the sun where it maintains a stable orbit which is conducive to the formation of life as we know it. A lot of other factors come into play to enable life to exist here..the size of earth..its rotational period..etc etc etc. ( In my opinion...Total fluke...! )

Does the name Darwin not ring any bells..?

Miltiades' original question asked which, in our personal opinion, is the most intolerant religion. Well, most seem to be intolerant to various degrees. My opinion is that Christianity, as practiced in the UK is probably the most tolerant whereas, again in my opinion, Islamic followers are the most intolerant.

I live in the EU...freedom of speech is tolerated. I do not consider my comments to be rascist at all I am simply commenting on religions in general...and trying to apply common sense. I don't believe in an all powerful deity...Don't believe in the boogey man either.

I can understand in a way why some previous civilizations worshipped the sun....since without it life on earth would not exist. Maybe I should start to gather a sun worshipping flock. ( But then again I s'pose someone would come along and make up some silly rules....My goodness look...sunspots..! Quick we need 24 sacrificial virgins on the slab...! )
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Postby miltiades » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:37 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
humanist wrote:having a member of my family who is Sri Lankan .... Oracles is correct on the Sri Lankan war.


What .. that Islam lies at the root of the Sri Lankan conflict?


Tim why do you think Islam lies at the root of this conflict?

I have already told you it is between the Sinhalese who claim to have been in Sri Lanka longer than the latter southern India-derived Tamils.


I do NOT think that Islam lies at the root of this conflict. This is your claim. To quote (from your post earlier in this thread) :

"Once again another Muslim connected conflict.

How many of the world's religion-inspired, divisional-solution seeking disputations have Islam as the common denominator?"

In my opinion Islam has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the conflict in Sri Lanka, and this is an idiotic claim. It is even more idiotic for somebody to come along and endorse this view purely out of a sycophantic, knee-jerk reaction.

I agree entirely that Islam is not at all connected with the Sri Lankan problem.
As one who has visited Sri Lanka on 5 occasions , and as one with strong connections with the Tamil mostly Sri Lankans , I must say that I have never encountered the "Islamic " factor as being the problem. There is a tiny minority of Muslims in Sri Lanca , mostly amongst the Tamils of Jaffna but I doubt very much that this tiny minority are at all influential in the conflict.
May I qualify my connection with Tamil Sri Lankas , my first Doctor in London way back in 1961 was a Sri Lancan , he passed away some time later and I continued with the same practice and the new GP also a Sri Lancan . We became good friends and I visited Colombo with him and stayed at his house. We have have had , and still do , endless "political" debates. He has now retired and a new GP , also a Tamil has taken over the practice.
All my GPs in the UK have been Tamils . I'm healhy ,apart from diabetes , and will live to be 100 !!!
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Postby Tim Drayton » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:43 am

Sri Lanka is a place that has fascinated me, and I have in the past tried to make sense of the conflict there. Just for the record, the explanation that makes most sense to me is that it is primarily a linguistic issue.

When Ceylon was still a British colony, obviously English was the administrative language. Quite a lot of locals were employed by the British in the civil service, but they had to have a good level of English and pass stiff English language proficiency exams. For some reason, Christian missionaries focussed their activities on the Jaffna peninsula, a Tamil region of the island. They ran several very good schools there through the medium of English, so obviously graduates of these schools were highly proficient in English and could thus enter attractive jobs in the British colonial administration. There are countless cases of Hindu Tamils in the region "converting" to Christianity to attend these schools who immediately re-converted to Hinduism following graduation, and then entered service with the British colonial government (Sri lanka's answer to Linobambakis!).

After independence, English was made the official language. This suited the initial ruling elite who were Sinhalese but mainly educated abroad and fluent in English. This, however, led to a continuation of the predominace of Jaffna Tamils in the civil service, because by now a tradition of proficiency in English had developed in this community. Curiously, the poorest and most disadvantaged community in Sri Lanka remained the Tamils living on the east coast, and they continueto be the poorest people in Sri Lanka to this day. It was specifically the Tamils living in the north of the island who continued to benefit from the use of English as the official language.

Not surprisingly, this situation gave rise to a huge greivance on the part the 70% majority Sinhalese community. Most of these lived in crippling poverty, and since ordinary people did not speak English, they were automatically barred from working in the civil service.

The provincial class of landowners spotted an opportunity to grasp the reins of power from the original ruling elite. They backed a populist political campaign based on the slogan of Sinhalisation - i.e. making Sinhala the official language. Bandaraike swept into power in 1956 based on this platform. He immediately made Sinhala the official language and all civil servants who were not proficient in this language were dismissed from their posts almost overnight. This included most of the Jaffna Tamils, who did not speak Sinhalese.

The rest is history. I believe it was this event that sparked off the ethnic conflict that then escalated and turned into the war that has been waged for the past two decades on this beautiful island.

Curiously, I was told by a Tamil acquantance of mine who strongly supports the Tamil Tigers - not all Tamils do, by any means - that he could have accepted the concept of Sinhalisation, but not overnight Sinhalisation, it had to be introduced in stages.

I always find it ironic that Bandaraike, the architect of Sinhalisation and thus promoter of the interests of the Buddhist community, was assassinated by a fundametalist Buddhist because of the former's support for Western medicine.

So, sorry, I do not think that religion has much to do with this conflict, and Islam is nowhere in sight.

Can I dispel one more myth that has been introduced in this thread. When I lived in Qatar I mixed a great deal with people from the large Sri Lankan community there - so much so that I can speak basic Sinhalese and even write it a little. I have known many Sinhalese and Tamil Sri Lankans and it is nonsense to suggest that one community is darker skinned than the other. You could stand on a main street in Columbo and be unable to detect from people's appearance or clothing who is Sinhalese, Tamil, Muslim, Burgher, Malay or any other ethnic group living on the island. I have been told this by Sri Lankans themselves.
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Postby Maynard23 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:49 am

miltiades wrote: I'm healhy ,apart from diabetes , and will live to be 100 !!!





Oh GOD forbid!! :shock: [if in fact he exists], are you implying that there is a possibility that we will be subjected to your "Old Bollocks" for something approaching another forty years !!. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby Paphitis » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:49 am

miltiades wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
CopperLine wrote:Paphitis,

So I take it that you have read the Koran and have developed this opinion from studying the topic


Would reading "The origin of leprechauns and the nature of sprites" develop your opinion on the truth of fairies ?


Pathetic analogy really.

It does not matter what I, You, Miltiades or any other person believe. The fact remains that over 1 billion people find solace in Islam, 1 billion find solace in Christianity, 1 billion find solace in Hinduism and so on.. Why should I or anyone else be judgemental and display prejudice to these religious doctrines.

I have not read the Bible or the Koran, and have no intention of doing so. I have developed my own opinions on Christianity about the existence of God, but I refrain from slandering the faith that so many depend on.

Likewise, I know very little about Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism etc. So I am not qualified to slander those religions and I refuse to display any intolerance towards them. Offering your own judgement on religious doctrines that you know nothing about, is not right.

As for Islam, there is one thing I find deplorable. And that is Sharia Law. I find it deplorable how women are treated, how they behead, stone in the name of Allah Akbar! I am also against any form of capital punishment in all circumstances, whether it is in Saudi Arabia or The United States. IMHO

Correction here mate. 1.4 billion Muslims , 2.2 Christians.

I think in your efforts to present an intelligent front on the issue you are talking rubbish.
People make their assumptions on an issue without necesarily studying comprehensively the matter in question.
The Islamic faith consists of two sides. The Middle of the road belivers and the Islamists who are hell bent on destroying the other faits and spreading their brand of Islam the world over. People react to THIS brand of Islam , people react to the July 7th bombings in London , the 7/11 in New York and the numerous other violent acts by the fanatics against innocent people. When Islamic fundamentalists are spreading , not the word of God , but words of hate and words inspiring disciples to commit ghastly crimes against the "non believer" then people react.
This tread was about all religious intolerance but right now the Intolerance to other faiths is shown by Saudi Arabia who will not allow other faiths to exist on its soil , Saudi Arabia is the nation responsible for the continuation of the myth that Islam will one day spread throughout the world. Saudi Arabia is the nation that still has public beheadings and mutilations , all in the name of a non existent God.
I have nothing against any ones faith , provided I have the right to be a non believer without being hated and without the fear of intimidation by the believers .
Believe and let believe , do not threaten me with death and destruction because I do not share your belief.


Excuse me, can you please post a link to The Sun, so I can read an analytical piece on Islam before I go and burn down a mosque!

What you say has nothing to do with Islam or other religious doctrines. Only mankind manipulates religion to serve their own interests and objectives which is why you see many wars and conflicts in the name of God.

No religion preaches death and destruction to anyone! But mankind does.

Once again, you expose your bigotry, prejudice and racism!
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Postby CopperLine » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:15 am

Paphitis,
Since mankind makes religion - and religion does not have a separate pure existence independent of mankind - then to say that 'only mankind manipulates religion' is nothing more than circular. What else would you expect to manipulate religion ? Mice ? Or maybe carrots ?

No religion preaches death and destruction to anyone! But mankind does.


Really ? It takes five seconds, if that, to turn to Deuteronomy (or almost any other 'book') - I hope that you'll agree that Deuteronomy is (a) a religious book and (b) a religious text invoked by the monotheistic religions - to find example after example of death preaching, hatred mongering, and demands for a slaughter-fest. Today we'd just call this genocide - but there are lots of people out there who insist that we respect religious belief like this :

1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.


Deuteronomy 7:1-3

Before anyone says that this is picking an isolated quotation from the bible and that this is not typical, I suggest that you take a look at the bible, old and new, the koran and any other numbers of 'holy books' and you'll find that they're brimming over with smiting and vengeance and bloodlust. Just what you'd expect from primarily nomadic pastoralist tribal societies who were the primary authors.
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Postby Oracle » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:25 am

Tim Drayton wrote:
Oracle wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
humanist wrote:having a member of my family who is Sri Lankan .... Oracles is correct on the Sri Lankan war.


What .. that Islam lies at the root of the Sri Lankan conflict?


Tim why do you think Islam lies at the root of this conflict?

I have already told you it is between the Sinhalese who claim to have been in Sri Lanka longer than the latter southern India-derived Tamils.


I do NOT think that Islam lies at the root of this conflict. This is your claim. To quote (from your post earlier in this thread) :

"Once again another Muslim connected conflict.

How many of the world's religion-inspired, divisional-solution seeking disputations have Islam as the common denominator?"

In my opinion Islam has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the conflict in Sri Lanka, and this is an idiotic claim. It is even more idiotic for somebody to come along and endorse this view purely out of a sycophantic, knee-jerk reaction.


Tim ... show me where I am supposed to have said Islam was at the root of the war in Sri Lanka ... those were your words.

Your link was the one which implicated Muslims in the conflict ... please have a look again.

Perhaps you need to censor your prejudices to what I say, as they are clouding your judgement.
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Postby Svetlana » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:30 am

Thanks for an interesting piece, Tim; if you have mastered even a few words in Sinhalese you have my admiration.

I too, find it a fascinating country and it is interesting that so many people on this Forum have varying links to such a small, and in world terms, unimportant island. If anyone who has not been, gets the chance to go, they should do so - Sri Lankans are a hospitable people - many of who bear an appealing inncence that has been lost in countires with advanced 'civilisations'.

To roseandchan, my sympathies go out to your relatives; institutional persecution is the worst kind.

I own a 52 perch plot in Colombo, though foreigners are not encouraged to buy property now, through a crippling 100% Property Tax.

I better stop now, before Mr Admin, sees me posting Off Topic in the wrong Section!

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Postby Oracle » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:46 am

Svetlana wrote:Thanks for an interesting piece, Tim; if you have mastered even a few words in Sinhalese you have my admiration.

I too, find it a fascinating country and it is interesting that so many people on this Forum have varying links to such a small, and in world terms, unimportant island. If anyone who has not been, gets the chance to go, they should do so - Sri Lankans are a hospitable people - many of who bear an appealing inncence that has been lost in countires with advanced 'civilisations'.

To roseandchan, my sympathies go out to your relatives; institutional persecution is the worst kind.

I own a 52 perch plot in Colombo, though foreigners are not encouraged to buy property now, through a crippling 100% Property Tax.

I better stop now, before Mr Admin, sees me posting Off Topic in the wrong Section!

Lana


But it is in the "Tourism" section .... :lol:
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