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Verhuegen has the right to feel deceived

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Piratis » Mon Apr 26, 2004 8:13 pm

First I want to make clear that the nationalists attacking Turkish Cypriot supporters of plan were Turks (Gray wolves) and not Greek Cypriots and these incidents happened in the occupied areas.
Graffiti happens in many countries in Europe in much higher rates than here. Bishops can say whatever they want, like you and I can. Anybody visiting Cyprus can see that Cyprus is a European democracy.

It is true that most Europeans will just read an article in the newspaper or listen to the news and will not investigate it further. But these same people don't care for Cyprus much anyways. They don't care if Cyprus will enter the EU united or not because this will not affect their every day life.

TRNC is not recognized and it will not be directly or indirectly. The support goes to the Turkish Cypriot community who are a part of Republic of Cyprus and should also benefit from the entry of our country to the EU. TRNC is just an obstacle to the support you will get and your economic development. Without it you would gain a lot more.
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Postby mehmet » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:09 pm

Thanks, but I already knew who attacked Turkish Cypriots. For that matter I also read disturbing accounts of behaviour towards Greek Cypriot supporters of Annan Plan from other Greek Cypriot's. The issue about grafiti is not just about the fact it occurs but of society's response to it. A bishop in Cyprus is a person like you or me but no one listens to you or me when we talk, at least not in the way they listen to a public figure like a bishop. Tell me, how important is religion to Greek Cypriot's these days?

You may wish to dismiss the events of the last couple of weeks as not being important, I tell you if people in England made statements like that they would be pressured to resign, it would cause huge public debate, even in a country like Uk where almost no one goes to Church and many people only become Christians at Christmas and Easter. There are also laws that prohibit racial discrimination as well as laws that prosecute people for incitemnet to hatred. Like I said in many countries there would be a sense of shame about such occurences. At least there would be amongst people of a liberal or left wing persuasion. Turkish Cypriots will be following what's been happening and draw their own conclusions. If you are sincere about wanting to share the island with Turkish Cypriots I invite you to condemn such occurences. Indifference will only lead me to conclude that you are happy to see actions against Cypriot supporters (whether Greek or Turkish speaking) of Annan Plan. Peace doesn't just require words on paper but actions against those who promote hostility, both on a personal and political level. Both from you and from the state (including your police forces).
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Postby mehmet » Mon Apr 26, 2004 9:12 pm

By the way seeing as you make the distinction between occupied areas and you own most democratic state in the world, you ought to consider how much more important it is that democratic freedom's like the right to express an opinion are respected within your state. This is not US/UK propoganda, I have only made reference to things I have read in Greek Cypriot press.
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Postby Piratis » Mon Apr 26, 2004 10:17 pm

By the way seeing as you make the distinction between occupied areas and you own most democratic state in the world, you ought to consider how much more important it is that democratic freedom's like the right to express an opinion are respected within your state. This is not US/UK propoganda, I have only made reference to things I have read in Greek Cypriot press.


And how did you read these things in our newspapers if freedom of speech does not exist?
Simply because freedom and democracy exist and everybody is allowed to say whatever he/she thinks even if it has no basis at all.

Vasiliou and his party, the biggest supporters of Annan plan, are on TV and radio stations day and night. Do you know how much Vasiliou party received in last elections? 2.59%! In other countries with such percentage not only they wouldn't be in the Parliament, but they wouldn't even bother to invite them every day at talk shows and show everything they say in the main news on TV. And then these people come and complain, and because in Cyprus we have democracy and freedom of speech, you are now able to listen to their unreasonable claims.

I've been to other countries and while we do have our disadvantages, lack of democracy or freedom of speech is definitely not one of them.

There are also laws that prohibit racial discrimination as well as laws that prosecute people for incitemnet to hatred.


We have the same laws and they are respected.

If you are sincere about wanting to share the island with Turkish Cypriots I invite you to condemn such occurences. Indifference will only lead me to conclude that you are happy to see actions against Cypriot supporters (whether Greek or Turkish speaking) of Annan Plan.


In our side the only incidents where verbal, no beating or any violence. Of course I condemn such actions. But to send to jail some 12 year old students because they called "traitors" some people that where passing by is an exaggeration i believe.
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Postby mehmet » Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:19 pm

I never said freedom of speech doesn't exist. What is apparent from what I have read is that to have a minority opinion within Greek Cypriot society was enough for some people to be on the recieving end of some unpleasant behaviour. How comfortable do you think Turkish Cypriots would be to be part of a society when such things occur. It doesn't matter if it's a minority of people, as I've said before a minority can make a lot of trouble for a society if the majority don't take action against them.

Also in northern Cyprus and in Turkey you can read and know of a variety of political opinions. I can reccommend you some websites if you need proof. As you know democracy is more than expressing opinions although it is an important part of it.

I'm not suggesting you jail 12 year olds. I am asking you if there is a public debate taking place about such behaviour as was reported. In Uk what was reported would be classed as anti-social , on TV there would be discussions taking place about how society should respond.

Anyway, you yourself condemn such behaviour and I don't want to lose sight of that.
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