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The Genocide of the Pontian Greeks.

Feel free to talk about anything that you want.

Postby Murtaza » Fri May 20, 2005 9:57 pm

cannedmoose wrote:In terms of balance, it should be pointed out that during the Greek invasion of Asia Minor, a great number of innocent Turks were slaughtered as well... there are no innocent parties in this dispute... both sides have reasons to atone.


The turk man at pontus genocide (It is not I think) is Topal Osman(He is a highwayman and a murderer). But after the some greek kills Turks, People want to help from him. What he did is, destroy 2 village if greek destroy one village(Dont know if you call this genocide, There is not goverment support.Even he is a criminal wanted by ottomans.). He hunged by Ataturk.

I wont resist more greek died from turks. But He is not a man from army.
In Asia minor Turks were slaughtered by the Army of Greece.(I think you call this genocide because of goverment support.)
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Postby achilles » Sat May 21, 2005 1:25 pm

Murtaza, take a look at what genocide is, and then rethink about your accussations :wink: on other's ignorance:
An attempt to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. International law defines the crime as comprising all or some of the following elements: killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to bring about a group's destruction, imposing measures to prevent births within a group and forcibly transferring children from the group. The concept applies in times of peace as well as war. It also includes conspiracy to commit genocide, public incitement to commit genocide and complicity in genocide. If committed in time of war, genocide is a war crime.


If you can consolidate by some sort of reasonable way that the Greeks wanted to eradicate the Turkish populations of the region, i might be willing to talk about it. Until then you are speculating, without having a firm grasp of the term 'genocide'.
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Postby Murtaza » Sat May 21, 2005 1:40 pm

achilles wrote:Murtaza, take a look at what genocide is, and then rethink about your accussations :wink: on other's ignorance:
An attempt to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. International law defines the crime as comprising all or some of the following elements: killing, causing serious bodily or mental harm, deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to bring about a group's destruction, imposing measures to prevent births within a group and forcibly transferring children from the group. The concept applies in times of peace as well as war. It also includes conspiracy to commit genocide, public incitement to commit genocide and complicity in genocide. If committed in time of war, genocide is a war crime.


If you can consolidate by some sort of reasonable way that the Greeks wanted to eradicate the Turkish populations of the region, i might be willing to talk about it. Until then you are speculating, without having a firm grasp of the term 'genocide'.


Just revenge and brutality.I dont know why Greece Army killed civilans because Greece Army began to kill people, after they lost the war and when they are retreating from Anatolia. By the way I dont care what they did anymore. But If you try to accuse us, You should face with your past too. They tried to kill all Muslim population at their way. If you dont call this genocide, You should not call the Pontus Genocide, Because A criminal Turk with some people killed some greeks.If we dont want greeks people at all 500 year is enogh for it.

19 May is the also same time Ataturk landed Samsun. We accept that time begining of our Independance War. (Just for info)
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Postby achilles » Sat May 21, 2005 1:59 pm

Murtaza wrote:Just revenge and brutality.I dont know why Greece Army killed civilans because Greece Army began to kill people, after they lost the war and when they are retreating from Anatolia. By the way I dont care what they did anymore. But If you try to accuse us, You should face with your past too. They tried to kill all Muslim population at their way. If you dont call this genocide, You should not call the Pontus Genocide, Because A criminal Turk with some people killed some greeks.If we dont want greeks people at all 500 year is enogh for it.

19 May is the also same time Ataturk landed Samsun. We accept that time begining of our Independance War. (Just for info)


I think i have shown quite extensively the death toll of Greeks killed by Turks and vice versa. In a war, people die, innocent or not. In a genocide, people die MASSIVELY. THe difference is more than clear. And no the Greeks hasd no vision of eradicating any Muslim populations, our struggle was beyond religion. It was about liberation and freedom, as opposed to the Young Turks and later Kemal, who were dreaming of a 'clean' Turkey. I am not saying that you shouldnt worship Kemal, as you do, this is none of my business. What am having trouble digesting is the continuous denial of facts. A Turk, who happens to be a grey-wolf lover, told me in another forum that the Young Turk regime is a disgrace even for the Turks, at least thats what he was tough in school, although the words 'genocide', democide' and 'ethnic cleansing' were carefully avoided.
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Postby Murtaza » Sat May 21, 2005 2:10 pm

achilles wrote:
Murtaza wrote:Just revenge and brutality.I dont know why Greece Army killed civilans because Greece Army began to kill people, after they lost the war and when they are retreating from Anatolia. By the way I dont care what they did anymore. But If you try to accuse us, You should face with your past too. They tried to kill all Muslim population at their way. If you dont call this genocide, You should not call the Pontus Genocide, Because A criminal Turk with some people killed some greeks.If we dont want greeks people at all 500 year is enogh for it.

19 May is the also same time Ataturk landed Samsun. We accept that time begining of our Independance War. (Just for info)


I think i have shown quite extensively the death toll of Greeks killed by Turks and vice versa. In a war, people die, innocent or not. In a genocide, people die MASSIVELY. THe difference is more than clear. And no the Greeks hasd no vision of eradicating any Muslim populations, our struggle was beyond religion. It was about liberation and freedom, as opposed to the Young Turks and later Kemal, who were dreaming of a 'clean' Turkey. I am not saying that you shouldnt worship Kemal, as you do, this is none of my business. What am having trouble digesting is the continuous denial of facts. A Turk, who happens to be a grey-wolf lover, told me in another forum that the Young Turk regime is a disgrace even for the Turks, at least thats what he was tough in school, although the words 'genocide', democide' and 'ethnic cleansing' were carefully avoided.


Young Turks are no more after the World War 1, Not politicaly. But you should think why Turks begin to fight under the rule of Greece? They didnt rebelled British rule or Italians.
And I dont remember much Turk use world "genocide, ethnic cleansing"
But it looks like Greeks used it. Do you know how mean greek went to greece after the war?
2 million I heard (Not sure you can give better numbers). But if turks want to kill al greeks wont be it a less number who survived?

And if you want to see MASSIVELY death look to Aydın. I think people who burned the Izmir are the surviver of Greece Army's slaughter.
A criminal and a Army is too much different.
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Postby achilles » Sat May 21, 2005 2:40 pm

Murtaza wrote:Young Turks are no more after the World War 1, Not politicaly. But you should think why Turks begin to fight under the rule of Greece? They didnt rebelled British rule or Italians.


What rule of Greece, man? What in the world are you talking about? When did any purely Turkish territory came under Greek rule for so long, as to feel the so-called 'Greek oppression'?

And I dont remember much Turk use world "genocide, ethnic cleansing"
But it looks like Greeks used it. Do you know how mean greek went to greece after the war?
2 million I heard (Not sure you can give better numbers). But if turks want to kill al greeks wont be it a less number who survived?


So a genocide takes place, or a genocidal plan for that matter, when everybody kisses this world goodbye. You simply dont make sense anymore. More than 350,000 Pontians is not enough for you?

And if you want to see MASSIVELY death look to Aydın. I think people who burned the Izmir are the surviver of Greece Army's slaughter.
A criminal and a Army is too much different.


Honestly my friend, you know very little about what happend to your very own country 80-90 years ago. Help me out for a moment, i am struggling here to make a decent discussion with someone (thats YOU)who is considering Macedonia to be Slavic or something, that we Greeks oppress poor Macedonians :lol: in and outside our borders, and now you come up with some crazy theory about the burning of Smyrna. Hey tell you what...i burnt it :lol:


Mercy my friend, mercy...my tolerance towards crap has its own limits. :lol:
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Postby Murtaza » Sat May 21, 2005 3:05 pm

achilles wrote:
Murtaza wrote:Young Turks are no more after the World War 1, Not politicaly. But you should think why Turks begin to fight under the rule of Greece? They didnt rebelled British rule or Italians.


What rule of Greece, man? What in the world are you talking about? When did any purely Turkish territory came under Greek rule for so long, as to feel the so-called 'Greek oppression'?

Just one month is enough for that people. I think you realy ruled very very bad.

And I dont remember much Turk use world "genocide, ethnic cleansing"
But it looks like Greeks used it. Do you know how mean greek went to greece after the war?
2 million I heard (Not sure you can give better numbers). But if turks want to kill al greeks wont be it a less number who survived?


So a genocide takes place, or a genocidal plan for that matter, when everybody kisses this world goodbye. You simply dont make sense anymore. More than 350,000 Pontians is not enough for you?

Where did this 350 000 number come? I think there is not greek in Turkey because of Treatment after war.

And if you want to see MASSIVELY death look to Aydın. I think people who burned the Izmir are the surviver of Greece Army's slaughter.
A criminal and a Army is too much different.


Honestly my friend, you know very little about what happend to your very own country 80-90 years ago. Help me out for a moment, i am struggling here to make a decent discussion with someone (thats YOU)who is considering Macedonia to be Slavic or something, that we Greeks oppress :lol: in and outside our borders, and now you come up with some crazy theory about the burning of Smyrna. Hey tell you what...i burnt it :lol:

Yes you know more than me about my country. And You dont know Izmır was burned, so you claim to know more than me about Turkish history :lol:
It is Turkish who burned İzmir at least British arcihevs say so. So dont disturb yourself with reading my post.
You should ask this poor Macedonians what they are and how Greece wont them let use their name for their country. Former Republic of Yugoslavia you call them, they call their self republic of macedonia.Well If I want to learn what is nationality of Macodonian. I ask it Macedonians not Greeks.

Mercy my friend, mercy...my tolerance towards crap has its own limits. :lol:


No mercy you know we show no mercy.
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Postby achilles » Sat May 21, 2005 3:14 pm

you epitomize the following two words: ignorance and idiocy. Consequently you are wasting my time. Cheers!
*yawn*
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Postby Murtaza » Sat May 21, 2005 3:27 pm

achilles wrote:you epitomize the following two words: ignorance and idiocy. Consequently you are wasting my time. Cheers!
*yawn*


Oh sorry. I wont do it again. You open-minded greek.
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Postby turkkan » Sun May 22, 2005 2:11 pm

achilles, if you want to discuss the pontians go the greek-turkish forum at
http://s9.invisionfree.com/Greece_Turke ... topic=1447

YOu will have to log in, its been discussed a hundred times there though so i dont know how much attention you will receive.
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