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Unitary State - with provisos.

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby humanist » Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:35 pm

utu ........ I agree with your proposition. Good luck in getting the TC's to go for it. And more importantly the British to let go of the sovereign bases, that will be a task and a half. It is for those bases that the British have fucked up Cyprus and its people over and over ..... decade after decade.
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Postby denizaksulu » Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:11 pm

humanist wrote:utu ........ I agree with your proposition. Good luck in getting the TC's to go for it. And more importantly the British to let go of the sovereign bases, that will be a task and a half. It is for those bases that the British have fucked up Cyprus and its people over and over ..... decade after decade.


Hi Humanist. I am currently reading 'Getting It Wrong' by Martin Packard. You are right about the SBA's and the British. I really believe in this Cyprus Conspiracy. Thats the next book I will read.

Howz the new year so far? :lol:
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Postby Yolcu » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:45 am

Deniz,
Aferdersiniz. Saniyorum ki mesajinizi anladim. Malesef korkiyorum ki Turkceyim a kadar iyi degil ama elinden gelini yaparim...

I am working on a historical fiction (Novel) project and joined the forum to learn more about what the community of "thinking" Cypriots would want for their lovely island. There is certainly enough blame to go around for all the bad things that happened in the last century.
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Postby yialousa1971 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:30 am

All Turks out of Cyprus, thats the only solution!
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Postby Yolcu » Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:24 am

yialousa1971- Narrow mindedness and racism isn't going to solve anything. I see that you are identified as a Forum Moderator. It doesn't appear that you have restrained from expressing an opinion that is far from moderate. I wonder, what exactly is it that you "lecture"? I hope it isn't history.
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Postby humanist » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:42 am

Deniz, Hi

Good to hear that my own theories and assumptions are supported by writers out there.

The New Year is thus far going well. I am very healthy, I have a job, I have a roof over my head and lots of gossip to follow. Life is good, I say ....... hehehehehe

Deniz I hope that 2011 has taken off well for you and your loved ones and may it bring lots happiness and joy to your lives as well as FREEDOM for OUR Cyprus.
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Re: Unitary State - with provisos.

Postby Klik » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:44 am

not bad overall, but too much simplicity over a very complex issue that is relatively new (just 50 years old issue) Let's see thoroughly

utu wrote:1. A new constitution to be drawn up to specifically state no federal government setup. A totally unitary state. Electoral boundaries made up on basis of overall population dispersal.


This is what we want.

utu wrote:2. Bicarmal legislature would govern Cyprus. Lower house (assembly) elected by popular ballot. Upper House (senate) appointed on basis of the principal communities in Cyprus: Greek, Turkish, Armenian, Marionite, and Others. Each community gets equal number of senators. Senatorial appointments made by the political parties with elected representation.


Not sure I can agree 100% here, but it can be worked out.
Because you'll have some parties that are simply Turkish and some other that are from the other 'communities' that speak a common language and neither is feeling oppressed. You can't equate majority to minority. 1960 all over again.

utu wrote:3. Bills passed by the lower house require endorsement of the Senate by 2/3rds majority before being forwarded to the President to be signed into law.


There should be just one parliament, with MINIMUM seats per community imo. So if Maronites get 5 seats but minimum is 3, they should get those 5 seats instead of restricitng them. But if they get 2 seats, they will get another default seat. Parliament could consist of 80 members, and minimum seats will be around 65 maybe so there's some change. You don't see people concerned that there's an "Armenian" as Parliament chairman, not more than the casual parliament chairman complaints possible.

utu wrote:4. President and Vice President elected on seperate ballot without ethnic requirement beside sole citizenship of Republic of Cyprus (no dual citizenship of any other country allowed for holders of these two offices).


I'd rather have a Prime Minister in a parliamentary government.
President having some significant, but more ceremonial and can be anyone from any 'community'.
No communal restrictions in Cabinet.

utu wrote:5. No political parties permitted espousing the philosophies of taksim or enosis. No political parties that have membership bias based on ethnic background or origin to be permitted. Independent candidates to sign statement indicating agreement not to support either taksim or enosis before being allowed to run for office.


Sensible, yet undemocratic. I mean the restriction of party policy. Taksim or Enosis should be avoided but in a constructive way, not destructive. Where will freedom of speech go? Sounds more like a moderate dictatorship rather than a democratic system when you deprive people of their opinions. You can make laws against people running in the streets demonstrating against the sovereignity of the government. If a political party wants Enosis it cannot be achieved as a branch of your #7 anyway, so no one will waste his time or his vote for something that can't be achieved. Perhaps just a few, which will be an insignificant 2% at most, from any side.

utu wrote:6. Removal of the official status of the Greek and Turkish languages in government. Only English to be permitted. Governmen employees must have command of the English language.


Truly dumb point. It's not like the USA, Canada, Australia where English speaking (mostly) people killed everyone and colonised the place. And it's definitely not like South Africa where the domestic population was under English command and oppressed that much. There's a reason why the Greek language has been in the island for over 3000 years and removing it by will is suicidal and treason.
Ideal would be that in PUBLIC schools, both languages are taught in the Primary Schools at least. In middle school and high school everyone would have a choice. One of them or both of them.
The biggest issue is the language used in schools. You can't use lingua franca. This will be the biggest concern in any plan. You can't force the 75% of the population to learn the language of the 25%. And you can't force the 99% to learn a language other than theirs.

utu wrote:7. The Treaty of Guarantee to be removed and replaced with a Treaty of Sovereignty to be enforced by the European Union. Only EU troops to be deployed on the island.


EU troops, we can live with that and wave goodbye to Turkish and Greek army. Cypriot army must be present as PROFESSIONAL army. A small force of 4.000 perhaps.
This will open Cypriot army academies, thus opens up a few jobs. Also opens up jobs for around 4 thousand people.

utu wrote:8. The Sovereign Base Areas to be ceded to the Cyprus Republic.


Of course but UK won't accept. Not even if Cyprus entered NATO.

utu wrote:9. Property issues dating back to before December 1963 to be properly addressed. Settlers brought in from other countries to be repatriated.


101% the case of what has to be done.

utu wrote:10. The National Anthem of Cyprus to be replaced with a neutral song, reflecting the sovereign status of the island.


Just a tune like the Spanish...

utu wrote:11. For initial period, Law enforcement to be done by EU police force to ensure total non-bias. Cypriot law enforcement and armed forces not permitted for initial period.


Erm... not entirely accepted.
First of all, people won't be able to communicate with the police. How's that good?
Second, you know how many people live off the police? It will cause major unemployment. The idea sounds good but in reality it will cause too much economic trouble.
Does the EU have a police force of its own btw? Is it the Belgian police? :D
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Postby denizaksulu » Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:22 am

Yolcu wrote:Deniz,
Aferdersiniz. Saniyorum ki mesajinizi anladim. Malesef korkiyorum ki Turkceyim a kadar iyi degil ama elinden gelini yaparim...

I am working on a historical fiction (Novel) project and joined the forum to learn more about what the community of "thinking" Cypriots would want for their lovely island. There is certainly enough blame to go around for all the bad things that happened in the last century.


I am sorry. When I saw you nick name, it reminded me of a lovely poem by Necmettin Halil Onan. It made me smile as it was the only poem I was able to memorise.

Dur yolcu! Bilmeden gelip bastığın,
Bu toprak, bir devrin battığı yerdir.
Eğil de kulak ver, bu sessiz yığın,
Bir vatan kalbinin attığı yerdir.

Bu ıssız, gölgesiz yolun sonunda,
Gördüğüm bu tümsek, Anadolu�da,
İstiklal uğrunda, namus yolunda,
Can veren Mehmed�n yattığı yerdir.



Bu tümsek, koparken büyük zelzele,
Son vatan parçası geçerken ele,
Mehmed�n düşmanı boğduğu sele,
Mübarek kanını kattığı yerdir.

Düşün ki, hasrolan kan, kemik, etin
Yaptığı bu tümsek, amansız, çetin,
Bir harbin sonunda, bütün milletin,
Hürriyet zevkini tattığı yerdir.

by Necmettin Halil Onan :lol:

translation:

TO A TRAVELLER

Stop wayfarer! Unbeknownst to you this ground
You come and tread on, is where an epoch lies;
Bend down and lend your ear, for this silent mound
Is the place where the heart of a nation sighs.

To the left of this deserted shadeless lane
The Anatolian slope now observe you well;
For liberty and honor, it is, in pain,
Where wounded Mehmet laid down his life and fell

This very mound, when violently shook the land,
When the last bit of earth passed from hand to hand,
And when Mehmet drowned the enemy in flood,
Is the spot where he added his own pure blood.

Think ,the consecrated blood and flesh and bone
That make up this mould, is where is where a whole nation,
After a harsh and pitiless war; alone
Tasted the joys of freedom with elation.

It was written during the war of Independence 1919-23. (I think)

Selamlar
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Postby lola-tulip » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:22 pm

To Yolcu, :)

This poem by Nikos Gatsos describes how I feel for Cyprus.



ΕΜΕΙΣ ΠΟΥ ΜΕΙΝΑΜΕ

Ἐμεις ποὺ μείναμε στὸ χῶμα τὸ σκληρὸ
γιὰ τοὺς νέκρους θ᾿ ἀνάψουμε λιβάνι
κι ὅταν χαθεῖ μακριὰ τὸ καραβάνι
τοῦ Χάρου τοῦ μεγάλου πεχλιβάνη
στὴ μνήμη τους θὰ στήσουμε χορό.

Ἐμεῖς ποὺ μείναμε θὰ τρῶμε τὸ πρωὶ
μιὰ φέτα ἀπὸ τοῦ ἥλιου τὸ καρβέλι
μέλι χρυσὸ σ᾿ ἀτρύγητο κουβέλι
καὶ δίχως πιὰ τοῦ φόβου τὸ τριβέλι
μπροστὰ θὰ προχωρᾶμε στὴ ζωή.

Ἐμεῖς ποὺ μείναμε θὰ βγοῦμε μιὰ βραδιὰ
στὴν ἐρεμιὰ νὰ σπείρουμε χορτάρι
καὶ πρὶν γιὰ πάντα ἡ νύχτα νὰ μᾶς πάρει
θὰ κάνουμε τὴ γῆ προσκυνητάρι
καὶ κούνια γιὰ τ᾿ ἀγέννητα παιδιά.



We Who Are Left

We who are left on this stony land
Will burn bitter incense for the dead
And when Charon the wrestler, new prey found
Has packed up his caravan and left
We'll dance in their memory.

We who have survived will breakfast
On a slice from the loaf of the sun
Golden honey from honeycombs
And with no more gnawing fear
We'll steer our life forward on its way.

We who have survived will go out one evening
To sow grass in the bare lands
And before night takes us down forever
We will make this land a shrine
And a cradle for children yet unborn.
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Postby Silenus » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:40 pm

It's tough when both sides think they're in the right and neither side is willing to be the first to offer the olive branch.
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