The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


Unitary State - with provisos.

Propose and discuss specific solutions to aspects of the Cyprus Problem

Postby BirKibrisli » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:00 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby denizaksulu » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:10 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.
User avatar
denizaksulu
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 36050
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 11:04 am

Postby quattro » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:23 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.


from enclave to cantons NO .......going backwards is not a solution we need is a unified Cyprus and leave the ghost of the past behind us . Just to remember them as examples to avoid.
User avatar
quattro
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:16 pm
Location: Nicosia

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:09 am

quattro wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.


from enclave to cantons NO .......going backwards is not a solution we need is a unified Cyprus and leave the ghost of the past behind us . Just to remember them as examples to avoid.


You are not wrong,Quatttro....But the question is how are we going to erase the collective consciousness of both communities and give them the courage and motivation to forget the past and look to the future...It will not happen by a magic wand!
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby Kikapu » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:48 am

denizaksulu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.


I live in one of the 26 Cantons in Switzerland. It's nothing like what you describe above, Deniz. :D

Let me just say this without getting too involved with this thread, just because this subject has been talked to death many times over, that unless the TCs (Turkey) are willing to walk away from their Taksim Dreams, as the GCs have done with their Enosis Dreams, there never can be a Unified Cyprus without a military action, because it was military action that brought about the present divide of the communities since each side wanted Enosis and Taksim for their communities.

In order for Cyprus to be part of the EU and also be part of the western civilization in the 21st century, it must too practice True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and as of late, the EU Principles. Just as the TCs (Turkey) stood in the way for the GCs (Greece) to achieve Enosis, the GCs will use all their political and legal firepower to prevent the TCs (Turkey) from achieving permanent Taksim in Cyprus with their military firepower. As long as the present conditions of status quo remains and are desired for them to become cornerstone for a solution for one community, there can be no compassion and empathy extended to them by the other community first. It would defy logic to do so, when one community would want to benefit far more at the expense of the other, as the case was with the failed Annan Plan and the 1960 constitution.
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 13541
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Postby BirKibrisli » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:54 pm

Kikapu wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.


I live in one of the 26 Cantons in Switzerland. It's nothing like what you describe above, Deniz. :D

Let me just say this without getting too involved with this thread, just because this subject has been talked to death many times over, that unless the TCs (Turkey) are willing to walk away from their Taksim Dreams, as the GCs have done with their Enosis Dreams, there never can be a Unified Cyprus without a military action, because it was military action that brought about the present divide of the communities since each side wanted Enosis and Taksim for their communities.

In order for Cyprus to be part of the EU and also be part of the western civilization in the 21st century, it must too practice True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and as of late, the EU Principles. Just as the TCs (Turkey) stood in the way for the GCs (Greece) to achieve Enosis, the GCs will use all their political and legal firepower to prevent the TCs (Turkey) from achieving permanent Taksim in Cyprus with their military firepower. As long as the present conditions of status quo remains and are desired for them to become cornerstone for a solution for one community, there can be no compassion and empathy extended to them by the other community first. It would defy logic to do so, when one community would want to benefit far more at the expense of the other, as the case was with the failed Annan Plan and the 1960 constitution.


Unless the GCs show real remorse about the events of 63-74,and satisfy the TCs that they are prepared to take all the necessary precautions to safeguard the TC interests,the TCs will not dismantle the trnc,Kikapu...No matter what you say or I say or anybody else says...
You say the Gcs have given up on their Enosis dream,but the evidence shows otherwise...More people than you can imagine still believe Cyprus to be a Greek island,and they still hold grudges againts the TCs for spoiling their long cherished dream...It is not realistic to expect the TCs to risk becoming despised aliens in their own country,once again!
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby Kikapu » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:53 am

BirKibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.


I live in one of the 26 Cantons in Switzerland. It's nothing like what you describe above, Deniz. :D

Let me just say this without getting too involved with this thread, just because this subject has been talked to death many times over, that unless the TCs (Turkey) are willing to walk away from their Taksim Dreams, as the GCs have done with their Enosis Dreams, there never can be a Unified Cyprus without a military action, because it was military action that brought about the present divide of the communities since each side wanted Enosis and Taksim for their communities.

In order for Cyprus to be part of the EU and also be part of the western civilization in the 21st century, it must too practice True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and as of late, the EU Principles. Just as the TCs (Turkey) stood in the way for the GCs (Greece) to achieve Enosis, the GCs will use all their political and legal firepower to prevent the TCs (Turkey) from achieving permanent Taksim in Cyprus with their military firepower. As long as the present conditions of status quo remains and are desired for them to become cornerstone for a solution for one community, there can be no compassion and empathy extended to them by the other community first. It would defy logic to do so, when one community would want to benefit far more at the expense of the other, as the case was with the failed Annan Plan and the 1960 constitution.


Unless the GCs show real remorse about the events of 63-74,and satisfy the TCs that they are prepared to take all the necessary precautions to safeguard the TC interests,the TCs will not dismantle the trnc,Kikapu...No matter what you say or I say or anybody else says...
You say the Gcs have given up on their Enosis dream,but the evidence shows otherwise...More people than you can imagine still believe Cyprus to be a Greek island,and they still hold grudges againts the TCs for spoiling their long cherished dream...It is not realistic to expect the TCs to risk becoming despised aliens in their own country,once again!


The question was Bir, are the TCs (Turkey) willing to walk away from their Taksim Dreams. Unless that question is answered with a loud "YES", there can never be steps taken forward to show remorse for past events by the GCs. I'm not even going to get into regarding remorse expected by the GCs from the TCs for their past events also. If the TCs (Turkey) expect a settlement to assure everything the TCs want, then there can never be a Democratic Cyprus respecting Human Rights, International law and EU Principles, and without those principles, the option will always be open for the TCs (Turkey) to fulfil their Taksim Dreams. I can't imagine the GCs are going to remove these EU Principles from any settlement agreements what every other EU member states have, in order to make it easier for the TCs (Turkey) to achieve their Taksim Dreams with the GCs signature in the future. So far the leaders of the communities are not talking the same language. One talks about Unification of all Cypriot people in one country, and the other talks about 2 separate people, 2 separate states. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Taksim Dreams are still alive and well for the TCs (Turkey). I do not see the same with the GCs leadership making statements to make me believe that the GCs (Greece) Enosis Dreams are also alive and well. I do not pay attention to what certain individuals may want regarding Taksim or Enosis. I pay attention to what the leaders want and what they say, since they are the elected leaders by the people.
User avatar
Kikapu
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 13541
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:18 pm

Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:15 am

Kikapu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...please read my manifesto.


I don't think the TCs will accept to live in cantons,dear RW...I know you mean very well,but for every one of you there are 1000s of Oracles and B25s and GRs...They put the fear of death into TC hearts...Do you blame them????


Living in Cantons reminds me of the days of having to pass through GC police manned checkpoints. Thats a big problem. I am sure RW means well and revise his manifesto. Shame on me, I never picked that up previously.


I live in one of the 26 Cantons in Switzerland. It's nothing like what you describe above, Deniz. :D

Let me just say this without getting too involved with this thread, just because this subject has been talked to death many times over, that unless the TCs (Turkey) are willing to walk away from their Taksim Dreams, as the GCs have done with their Enosis Dreams, there never can be a Unified Cyprus without a military action, because it was military action that brought about the present divide of the communities since each side wanted Enosis and Taksim for their communities.

In order for Cyprus to be part of the EU and also be part of the western civilization in the 21st century, it must too practice True Democracy, Human Rights, International Laws and as of late, the EU Principles. Just as the TCs (Turkey) stood in the way for the GCs (Greece) to achieve Enosis, the GCs will use all their political and legal firepower to prevent the TCs (Turkey) from achieving permanent Taksim in Cyprus with their military firepower. As long as the present conditions of status quo remains and are desired for them to become cornerstone for a solution for one community, there can be no compassion and empathy extended to them by the other community first. It would defy logic to do so, when one community would want to benefit far more at the expense of the other, as the case was with the failed Annan Plan and the 1960 constitution.


Unless the GCs show real remorse about the events of 63-74,and satisfy the TCs that they are prepared to take all the necessary precautions to safeguard the TC interests,the TCs will not dismantle the trnc,Kikapu...No matter what you say or I say or anybody else says...
You say the Gcs have given up on their Enosis dream,but the evidence shows otherwise...More people than you can imagine still believe Cyprus to be a Greek island,and they still hold grudges againts the TCs for spoiling their long cherished dream...It is not realistic to expect the TCs to risk becoming despised aliens in their own country,once again!


The question was Bir, are the TCs (Turkey) willing to walk away from their Taksim Dreams. Unless that question is answered with a loud "YES", there can never be steps taken forward to show remorse for past events by the GCs. I'm not even going to get into regarding remorse expected by the GCs from the TCs for their past events also. If the TCs (Turkey) expect a settlement to assure everything the TCs want, then there can never be a Democratic Cyprus respecting Human Rights, International law and EU Principles, and without those principles, the option will always be open for the TCs (Turkey) to fulfil their Taksim Dreams. I can't imagine the GCs are going to remove these EU Principles from any settlement agreements what every other EU member states have, in order to make it easier for the TCs (Turkey) to achieve their Taksim Dreams with the GCs signature in th efuture. So far the leaders of the communities are not talking the same language. One talks about Unification of all Cypriot people in one country, and the other talks about 2 separate people, 2 separate states. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Taksim Dreams are still alive and well for the TCs (Turkey). I do not see the same with the GCs leadership making statements to make me believe that the GCs (Greece) Enosis Dreams are also alive and well. I do not pay attention to what certain individuals may want regarding Taksim or Enosis. I pay attention to what the leaders want and what they say, since they are the elected leaders by the people.


I would give little credit to what politicians say in public,dear Kikapu...Of course they will say their enosis dream is dead,but pivately many gloat that it has already been achived via the EU...

As far as I can see,what 'Taksim' means for the average TCs is a geographical, safe area where they can have a semblence of self rule.We have not all come through our experiences of the past as unscathed as you seem to be...Most of us need to be sure we will never be at the mercy of the GCs once again...Because as many posters here keep exhibiting every day,their hatred and bitterness are very much alive...I would give more emphasis to what 'the people' tell us and show us,than what their politicians do...The ROC state has a well oiled PR mechanism to churn out the kind of arguments that would appeal to people like you and I,with emphasis on democracy and human rights etc...I need more than words to be convinced that their motivations and intensions are good...
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

Postby boulio » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:48 am

enosis has been achieved with greece thru the eu as well as portugal,spain italy,slovenia etc etc etc get it!As for safegurads that you are looking for they are within the EU.
boulio
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 2575
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:45 am

Postby BirKibrisli » Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:51 pm

boulio wrote:enosis has been achieved with greece thru the eu as well as portugal,spain italy,slovenia etc etc etc get it!As for safegurads that you are looking for they are within the EU.


Sure??? EU and whose army??? :)
User avatar
BirKibrisli
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 6162
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:28 pm
Location: Australia

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem Solution Proposals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests